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-   -   OT: Derek Jeter Forgeries On Counterfeit Cards (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=266806)

thetruthisoutthere 03-11-2019 02:06 PM

OT: Derek Jeter Forgeries On Counterfeit Cards
 
Below is a link to a Blog I posted yesterday on forged Derek Jeter 1994-1995 counterfeit Upper Deck baseball cards.

I noticed these forgeries months ago, but at the time I didn't really feel like exposing anything.

But yesterday, something ticked me off and I got rolling.

Jeter forgeries on counterfeit cards.


https://live.autographmagazine.com/p...here-are-these

chalupacollects 03-11-2019 02:58 PM

Great article! Law enforcement notified?

Ryan1125 03-11-2019 03:04 PM

Wow... it never ceases to amaze me how low people will stoop to run a scam. I am in the market for a lower end Jeter rookie auto and noticed quite a few of these available recently in my searches, now I know why. Thanks for pointing this out Christopher.

I wish the athletes/companies they are ripping off would go after people like this and make an example of them, this is pure FRAUD and sellers like this should be in jail IMHO.

thetruthisoutthere 03-11-2019 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalupacollects (Post 1861824)
Great article! Law enforcement notified?

So far I have only notified Upper Deck, and to be honest, I don't expect to hear back from them.

Previous experiences tell me, that companies like Steiner Sports, UDA, etc., don't care.

thetruthisoutthere 03-11-2019 03:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan1125 (Post 1861827)
Wow... it never ceases to amaze me how low people will stoop to run a scam. I am in the market for a lower end Jeter rookie auto and noticed quite a few of these available recently in my searches, now I know why. Thanks for pointing this out Christopher.

I wish the athletes/companies they are ripping off would go after people like this and make an example of them, this is pure FRAUD and sellers like this should be in jail IMHO.

I agree, Ryan.

Like I wrote in my blog, people are buying the back of the card:



Attachment 347357

thetruthisoutthere 03-11-2019 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan1125 (Post 1861827)
Wow... it never ceases to amaze me how low people will stoop to run a scam. I am in the market for a lower end Jeter rookie auto and noticed quite a few of these available recently in my searches, now I know why. Thanks for pointing this out Christopher.

I wish the athletes/companies they are ripping off would go after people like this and make an example of them, this is pure FRAUD and sellers like this should be in jail IMHO.

It would be easy to assume that these were Upper Deck issued cards, and that is why I always concentrate on the autograph before anything else.

First, they were easy forgeries to opine, but the sheer number of them in such a short period of time sure got my interest.

They were two Ebay sellers that were listing new ones as soon as the previous auction ended.

Just rolled them out one after another.

MGHPro 03-11-2019 09:00 PM

Good job - thanks for posting .

bigfanNY 03-12-2019 12:37 AM

Thank you for posting. I purchased one of the cards in your article. If it can be used as evidence by anyone willing to pursue this I will happily eat the money to see the people responsible get what is coming. I will follow up with a pm. As for a low end Jeter it was a a time a tough card to get. And I
like you said in article trusted the Upper deck hologram on the back.
Thanks I hope this goes somewhere.

bigfanNY 03-12-2019 12:51 AM

I sent a message to TNTnorthjersey If they are source then the fact that I live in NJ is going to be a problem for them. I will reach out to family members in law enforcement and see if I can get any traction. I also have a relative that is a postal inspector. What is so sad is how many have sold in such a short time. I bought mine a forgot about it. If I had followed the market I might have caught on. But your article and post was a big help. Thank you.again.

Yastrzemski Sports 03-12-2019 02:03 AM

Someone has been faking these for a few years now. The same people have made fake 2017 Judge heritage blank back cards.

Mr. Zipper 03-12-2019 08:20 AM

We know law enforcement isn't going to go after them for forged signatures.

But, you'd think Upper Deck and the other manufacturers WOULD take an interest in someone counterfeiting their licensed product. In my view, that is a much more viable avenue to make these crooks pay.

Yastrzemski Sports 03-12-2019 09:18 AM

In general, buyers beware of pre 2000 autographs. Grading companies will not grade them as company authenticated cards. They have to go through the authentication process because so many of the companies who made autograph cards went through some sort of warehouse sale or bankruptcy and the cards are prone to forgery since blanks went out.
It doesnít seem like this is an Upper Deck issue. They are out of the baseball business.. I would think this is more an mlb / nyy/ Derek jeter issue since they are counterfeiting mlb intellectual property and logos and the image and name of Derek Jeter. I would love to see them involved in protecting their license.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper (Post 1861962)
We know law enforcement isn't going to go after them for forged signatures.

But, you'd think Upper Deck and the other manufacturers WOULD take an interest in someone counterfeiting their licensed product. In my view, that is a much more viable avenue to make these crooks pay.


7nohitter 03-12-2019 09:39 AM

Chris,

Great work! Very informative write up. I've been wanting to add a Jeter autograph to my collection and I would have been fooled by this.

dgo71 03-12-2019 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfanNY (Post 1861932)
I sent a message to TNTnorthjersey If they are source then the fact that I live in NJ is going to be a problem for them. I will reach out to family members in law enforcement and see if I can get any traction.

Fingers crossed, TNTnorthNJ is one of the worst sellers on eBay. They get hundreds of negative feedback comments every year as far back as I can remember, but do so much volume their feedback rating is 99%+. I bought something from them over ten years ago and never got the item or a refund (this was before Paypal and all the buyer protection rules) so whenever something of theirs comes up in my search I check to see if they've cleaned up their act. The answer is always no. I've never understood why eBay never did anything about them.

Fuddjcal 03-12-2019 11:36 AM

very nice cottage industry. What a business idea? Some people have no pride or integrity. What goes around comes around PERIOD.

steve B 03-12-2019 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper (Post 1861962)
We know law enforcement isn't going to go after them for forged signatures.

But, you'd think Upper Deck and the other manufacturers WOULD take an interest in someone counterfeiting their licensed product. In my view, that is a much more viable avenue to make these crooks pay.

The same Upper Deck that got caught faking their own product?


Not likely.



I wonder if these cards are actually faked by the same people faking the autograph, or if they landed on a stockpile of in house fakes from UD?

thetruthisoutthere 03-12-2019 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7nohitter (Post 1861978)
Chris,

Great work! Very informative write up. I've been wanting to add a Jeter autograph to my collection and I would have been fooled by this.

Thank you, Andrew.

I can understand those who aren't familiar with Jeter's autograph to get fooled by this.

thetruthisoutthere 03-12-2019 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGHPro (Post 1861905)
Good job - thanks for posting .

Thank you, Matt.

I should posted that blog two months, but I guess better late than never.

thetruthisoutthere 03-12-2019 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B (Post 1862025)
The same Upper Deck that got caught faking their own product?


Not likely.



I wonder if these cards are actually faked by the same people faking the autograph, or if they landed on a stockpile of in house fakes from UD?

I agree.

Upper Deck does not care.

Steiner Sports doesn't care either.

chalupacollects 03-12-2019 05:32 PM

Another seller with same fake
 
Here is another listing where the lettering on card is off...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/382824833594

Safe to assume the auto is bad too...

thetruthisoutthere 03-12-2019 05:38 PM

Ebay seller Lyonhrt777
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here is an example of one Ebay seller who would list another one immediately after a previous auction ended.

Look at the dates. This is just one instance.



Attachment 347358

chalupacollects 03-12-2019 05:40 PM

And another smh...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Upper-...kAAOSwB0hcYxiw

At least this seller took the item down and seemed concerned...

chalupacollects 03-12-2019 05:49 PM

Just noticed both items I listed have same BIN price of $199.... coincidence?

bnorth 03-12-2019 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalupacollects (Post 1862104)

Now that Christopher has called out these fakes we will see a rise in them being listed/sold. From past personal experience otherwise good people will look to see if they have one. If they do some try to sell them before more people find out they are fake so they are not stuck with them.:(

thetruthisoutthere 03-12-2019 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1862110)
Now that Christopher has called out these fakes we will see a rise in them being listed/sold. From past personal experience otherwise good people will look to see if they have one. If they do some try to sell them before more people find out they are fake so they are not stuck with them.:(

I initially wrote that I first observed these months ago, but being that I have been trying to ween myself away from exposing this garbage, I didn't do anything, but during the last two months I have witnessed a proliferation of these (because spring training has begun) and I felt like I had to do something.

People were buying them because of the Upper Deck COA on the back of the card and I knew something had to be done.

theshleps 03-12-2019 07:47 PM

I know these are fake. Great work. I do know collector/dealers that when Jeter played at the Arizona fall league while still in the minors handed him stacks of cards at a time and got over 100 signed cards of his over the course of the AFL season. So sometimes quantity alone can't judge things.
They did the same with Trout at instructional league. Usually these guys would never again sign in quantity but in the beginning some did.

thetruthisoutthere 03-12-2019 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshleps (Post 1862139)
I know these are fake. Great work. I do know collector/dealers that when Jeter played at the Arizona fall league while still in the minors handed him stacks of cards at a time and got over 100 signed cards of his over the course of the AFL season. So sometimes quantity alone can't judge things.
They did the same with Trout at instructional league. Usually these guys would never again sign in quantity but in the beginning some did.

Yep.

He signed a boatload of sigs back then.

And thank you, Michael.

thetruthisoutthere 03-13-2019 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfanNY (Post 1861931)
Thank you for posting. I purchased one of the cards in your article. If it can be used as evidence by anyone willing to pursue this I will happily eat the money to see the people responsible get what is coming. I will follow up with a pm. As for a low end Jeter it was a a time a tough card to get. And I
like you said in article trusted the Upper deck hologram on the back.
Thanks I hope this goes somewhere.

You're welcome, Jonathan.

I hope we can do something about this.

I have no idea who the source is, but I can state that the first seller I observed listing these was Tntnorthnj.

thetruthisoutthere 03-13-2019 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper (Post 1861962)
We know law enforcement isn't going to go after them for forged signatures.

But, you'd think Upper Deck and the other manufacturers WOULD take an interest in someone counterfeiting their licensed product. In my view, that is a much more viable avenue to make these crooks pay.

I've contacted Steiner Sports a half dozen times regarding threads like the one below.

Steiner Sports doesn't care.

If you also have to understand, that many of the sellers of forgeries, use those sales to purchase authentic autographs from Steiner and others.

Maybe Steiner Sports doesn't want to upset those people.

Shame on Steiner Sports for not protecting their name/product and for not protecting the buyers who think they're purchasing a Derek Jeter autograph with a Steiner Sports COA.

rjackson44 03-13-2019 09:53 AM

hank you Christopher ,,,this will never end ,,

thetruthisoutthere 03-13-2019 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere (Post 1862228)
I've contacted Steiner Sports a half dozen times regarding threads like the one below.

Steiner Sports doesn't care.

If you also have to understand, that many of the sellers of forgeries, use those sales to purchase authentic autographs from Steiner and others.

Maybe Steiner Sports doesn't want to upset those people.

Shame on Steiner Sports for not protecting their name/product and for not protecting the buyers who think they're purchasing a Derek Jeter autograph with a Steiner Sports COA.

I forgot to attach the link from the previous comment.

I've posted about a dozen threads like the one below and Steiner Sports doesn't care.


https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...ource=activity

thetruthisoutthere 03-13-2019 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjackson44 (Post 1862234)
hank you Christopher ,,,this will never end ,,

Thank you, Octavio...

Ad you're right--This will never end.

If there's a way to scam, the scammers will find a way.

Mr. Zipper 03-13-2019 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere (Post 1862241)
I forgot to attach the link from the previous comment.

I've posted about a dozen threads like the one below and Steiner Sports doesn't care.

I have also contacted Steiner and tagged them on social media with direct links to obvious fakes that had a Steiner hologram. Never got a response.

You'd think a company with the resources Steiner has could easily deploy legal resources to quickly stop any seller from offering an item with a counterfeit or unauthorized Steiner sticker. Puzzling why they do not protect their brand. :confused:

thetruthisoutthere 03-13-2019 11:03 AM

I will also state that I have no doubt that some of the sellers of that garbage know exactly what they are selling!!!!!

bigfanNY 03-13-2019 02:33 PM

I examined the card I purchased from TNT and it us definitely a counterfeit card when you look at printing on the back none of the letters are clean all fuzzy from the dor pattern. most ear when you look at upper deck logo. I agree that selling one or two you might not have noticed but ten...

thetruthisoutthere 03-13-2019 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfanNY (Post 1862308)
I examined the card I purchased from TNT and it us definitely a counterfeit card when you look at printing on the back none of the letters are clean all fuzzy from the dor pattern. most ear when you look at upper deck logo. I agree that selling one or two you might not have noticed but ten...

Those sellers got really greedy when they started listing them as if they were coming off an assembly line (looks like they are) and selling them like hotcakes.

thetruthisoutthere 03-13-2019 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalupacollects (Post 1862104)
And another smh...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Upper-...kAAOSwB0hcYxiw

At least this seller took the item down and seemed concerned...

That seller usually sells good stuff, so I have to assume they were fooled also.

Hopefully that seller will contact the person they purchased it from.

thetruthisoutthere 03-14-2019 05:55 PM

Koufax
 
Check out the below link for Sold Auctions on Sandy Koufax "2000 SP Chirography" autographs.

Some of these are from the same sellers who sold the Jeter forgeries.

I am not as versed in Sandy's autograph as some of you are, but some of these do not look good and neither do the cards.


For some reason the link isn't working, but if you do a search on "Sandy Koufax 2000 SP Autograph" in Completed/Sold auctions you'll find them.

thetruthisoutthere 03-14-2019 06:36 PM

Solid links.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-SP-AUT...kAAOSwWKpchG0j

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Upper-...p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Upper-...p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-TEAM-T...p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Upper-...p2047675.l2557

thetruthisoutthere 03-14-2019 06:46 PM

Sandy Koufax
 
2 Attachment(s)
Ebay seller Tntnorthnj has sold eight of these recently.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Upper-...p2047675.l2557




Attachment 347496

Attachment 347497

Yastrzemski Sports 03-14-2019 07:48 PM

They also seem to have a large supply of 2009 Harper autos, 2000 Kobe autos, 2003 mays autos, 1992 Ali autos, 1997 mays autos, 2001 Unitas autos, 2001 starr autos, 2003 pujols autos and 2000 Skybox Brady rookies to go along with the Jeter autos and 2017 judge blank back cards. Looks like thousands $$ per month in sales.

thetruthisoutthere 03-14-2019 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports (Post 1862666)
They also seem to have a large supply of 2009 Harper autos, 2000 Kobe autos, 2003 mays autos, 1992 Ali autos, 1997 mays autos, 2001 Unitas autos, 2001 starr autos, 2003 pujols autos and 2000 Skybox Brady rookies to go along with the Jeter autos and 2017 judge blank back cards. Looks like thousands $$ per month in sales.

Yes they do, Adam.

I noticed the Ali on a so-called Classic card.

Thank you for the input, Adam.

Yastrzemski Sports 03-14-2019 09:37 PM

3 Attachment(s)
I have a personal stake in this. I purchased a card from them in early 2017. Hereís the receipt for $105 attached. This was 2 years ago.

I put the card away for a couple of months and didnít think much of it since it was a pack certified card. Never crossed my mind that it wasnít real until I took the card to BGS a couple of months later. They returned it to me and I was shocked. It was already past the date of possible return so I just wrote it off as a loss. It has nagged me ever since.

The timing of your post couldnít be any more perfect. That card sat on a shelf in my store until today. I received a call this afternoon from the Hall of Fame. They are putting together a card exhibit and wanted an example of a counterfeit card to put in it. I dropped off the card with the rejection from BGS. I hope they put this card in their exhibit for everyone to see. It helps to put me at ease when I think that some good will come from it and I can consider it a donation to education.

Thank you for your post and your work on this matter. I am new to the boards but this is one of the reasons I joined. After seeing Mannys work with the T206 autos I thought this was a good place to keep up with the hobby and maybe add a thing or two. You have done a great amount of good in bringing this to light.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere (Post 1862667)
Yes they do, Adam.

I noticed the Ali on a so-called Classic card.

Thank you for the input, Adam.


chalupacollects 03-15-2019 07:27 AM

Seems most of the links above are showing NY/NJ sellers....to me looks like a little den of thieves now...

thetruthisoutthere 03-15-2019 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports (Post 1862697)
I have a personal stake in this. I purchased a card from them in early 2017. Hereís the receipt for $105 attached. This was 2 years ago.

I put the card away for a couple of months and didnít think much of it since it was a pack certified card. Never crossed my mind that it wasnít real until I took the card to BGS a couple of months later. They returned it to me and I was shocked. It was already past the date of possible return so I just wrote it off as a loss. It has nagged me ever since.

The timing of your post couldnít be any more perfect. That card sat on a shelf in my store until today. I received a call this afternoon from the Hall of Fame. They are putting together a card exhibit and wanted an example of a counterfeit card to put in it. I dropped off the card with the rejection from BGS. I hope they put this card in their exhibit for everyone to see. It helps to put me at ease when I think that some good will come from it and I can consider it a donation to education.

Thank you for your post and your work on this matter. I am new to the boards but this is one of the reasons I joined. After seeing Mannys work with the T206 autos I thought this was a good place to keep up with the hobby and maybe add a thing or two. You have done a great amount of good in bringing this to light.

Holy smokes, Adam--Thanks for posting that.

I had no idea these forged Jeter cards were around that long.

I've observed those forgeries on Ebay here and there, but being so involved in the Florida Forgeries, I really didn't pay attention until recently when I would notice four and five listed at one time by various NJ/NY sellers.

7nohitter 03-15-2019 08:20 AM

Again, this is scary.

I'd be fooled by all of these pieces of garbage.

thetruthisoutthere 03-15-2019 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7nohitter (Post 1862744)
Again, this is scary.

I'd be fooled by all of these pieces of garbage.

Sure is, Andrew.

And eventually, the buyers of those Jeter forged cards are going to discover they own forged counterfeit cards.

Mr. Zipper 03-15-2019 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalupacollects (Post 1862734)
Seems most of the links above are showing NY/NJ sellers....to me looks like a little den of thieves now...

A ring in northern NJ that apparently has access to a commercial printing press. :mad:

thetruthisoutthere 03-15-2019 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper (Post 1862749)
A ring in northern NJ that apparently has access to a commercial printing press. :mad:

Most likely.

thetruthisoutthere 03-15-2019 11:31 AM

2 Attachment(s)
This forged Jeter was sold by Ebay seller Lyonhrt777.

First, the auction itself and then a screenshot of the Negative Feedback posted by the buyer and then the reply from the seller.

Unbelievable.



Attachment 347552


Attachment 347553

Yastrzemski Sports 03-15-2019 12:04 PM

He has sold quite a number of autos of Koufax, Harper, Jeter, Kobe, Mays, Unitas, Ali and Pujols. All the same ones the other guy has. And I just noticed a bunch of 2010 Platinum Trout autos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere (Post 1862786)
This forged Jeter was sold by Ebay seller Lyonhrt777.

First, the auction itself and then a screenshot of the Negative Feedback posted by the buyer and then the reply from the seller.

Unbelievable.


bnorth 03-15-2019 03:44 PM

tntnorthnj has been called out on a few forums for selling fake items.

That ebay ID is Ted Straka of TNT Sportscards. They set up at several shows. Maybe someone should look at the inventory they have at these shows and see if they have any of these cards with them.

thetruthisoutthere 03-15-2019 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1862841)
tntnorthnj has been called out on a few forums for selling fake items.

That ebay ID is Ted Straka of TNT Sportscards. They set up at several shows. Maybe someone should look at the inventory they have at these shows and see if they have any of these cards with them.

I recently purchased (it is on its way) an authentic Derek Jeter autographed 1995 UD card.

If anyone observes one of the forged cards, either let me know or buy it for me and I will, of course, reimburse you, and the postage.

Since my blog was posted, some have been removed and others were taken down by the sellers.

And the sellers of the forged cards have stopped listing them.

I should have waited until I secured one, but let's get one of these into my hands.

I do have the unsigned version, but I want a signed one.

Thank you.

thetruthisoutthere 03-15-2019 04:55 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I never heard of the below website before, but they have one listed (the forged one).

Is the below the actual HOF website? Never saw it before.



Attachment 347602

chalupacollects 03-15-2019 05:26 PM

First, the auction itself and then a screenshot of the Negative Feedback posted by the buyer and then the reply from the seller.

Unbelievable.


He is working his way up to "God Bless" territory:p

rjackson44 03-15-2019 06:56 PM

Hi christopher
 
The ryans have been around for a while ,,those are scary ,,i read all of christophers posts .its sad what they do to make a buck ,sad.

chalupacollects 03-16-2019 08:17 AM

[quote=thetruthisoutthere;1862872]I never heard of the below website before, but they have one listed (the forged one).

Is the below the actual HOF website? Never saw it before.



What's the url?

Yastrzemski Sports 03-16-2019 10:22 AM

It certainly does look like they are trying to distance themselves from the cards and remove all of the evidence. But when you have a 2+ year history of selling the cards you canít hide whatís already done.
Yes that card is for sale on the HOF site. Iíll let them know on Monday that they were fooled. Maybe they can get involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere (Post 1862866)
I recently purchased (it is on its way) an authentic Derek Jeter autographed 1995 UD card.

If anyone observes one of the forged cards, either let me know or buy it for me and I will, of course, reimburse you, and the postage.

Since my blog was posted, some have been removed and others were taken down by the sellers.

And the sellers of the forged cards have stopped listing them.

I should have waited until I secured one, but let's get one of these into my hands.

I do have the unsigned version, but I want a signed one.

Thank you.


thetruthisoutthere 03-16-2019 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports (Post 1863005)
It certainly does look like they are trying to distance themselves from the cards and remove all of the evidence. But when you have a 2+ year history of selling the cards you canít hide whatís already done.
Yes that card is for sale on the HOF site. Iíll let them know on Monday that they were fooled. Maybe they can get involved.

Adam, I did send them an email yesterday.

Like I previously wrote, I want to get one of the forged ones in my hands.

thetruthisoutthere 03-16-2019 03:30 PM

Authentic Derek Jeter 1995 UD Card
 
2 Attachment(s)
Here is my authentic Derek Jeter 1995 UD card.

As you can clearly see, they are major differences between the authentic ones and the forged counterfeit ones sold by sellers Tntnorthnj, lyonhrt777, brjohnc, richyoun8 and others.



Attachment 347693

Attachment 347694

thetruthisoutthere 03-16-2019 04:56 PM

Side-By-Side Comparison.
 
1 Attachment(s)
The one on the left is the authentic Jeter on a original UD card.

The one on the right is the forged version on a counterfeit card.



Attachment 347701

bigfanNY 03-16-2019 04:56 PM

3 Attachment(s)
This is a fake purchased from Tnt still has their tamper resistant tag on it. But you can see clearly from pictures it is a fake. The easiest way is the Derek Jeter name in silver on the bottom. see how only the top 2/3 of the star are reproduced. As well as both of the letter R's are different the fakes have a curl on bottom. Also on the bottom where it say SS look at the fake the tops of both S's have a dark shadow on the top insted of being pure white like on the real card. The signature is bad (you can tell when you look at enough good ones ) The back also has tells down on bottom right Upper Deck trade mark see how the edges are not clean. And small letters are slightly fuzzy. What is worse is the large amount that has been sold of these 2000 UD Koufax , 2001 Johnny Unitas UD Legends, 1997 Willie Mays Topps Heritage autos. and on and on. This is bad and it looks like NJ and NY are where it started. And worse continues.
Hope this helps.

thetruthisoutthere 03-16-2019 05:01 PM

Great input, Jonathan.

The more I look, the more discrepancies I find.

I posted a side-by-side just before your post.

Ryan1125 03-18-2019 08:30 AM

Just absolutely sickening. It's bad enough to be a kitchen forger scribbling on your cheap base cards and committing fraud, it's somehow an even lower layer of absolute scum to have this type of "production" process in place. Local authorities should be involved, and if pressed eBay could pop these guys in two seconds. It's simple...follow the money trail.

I am so sick of eBay allowing and enabling absolute FRAUD/SCAMS to the highest degree. I understand they cannot authenticate every item in the world, but there absolutely should be a knowledgeable department handling the reports on questionable items IMHO.

The side of this people forget about, is owners of REAL 95 UD Jeter autos have had their investment DEVALUED over and over every time one of these sells in the flooded market these crooks artificially created...it's infuriating and why true collectors have to rally together and spread the knowledge on this kind of stuff. Thank you Christopher for all you do for our hobby.

Yastrzemski Sports 03-18-2019 09:18 AM

To me, it casts doubt on almost anything. The one I bought had the ďanti counterfeitĒ hologram and foil on the front. This was a high quality forgery. I do this for a living and I didnít think twice about the Jeter when it was in my hand. I can spot a fake vintage card from across the room but this got me. I canít speak for the rest of the Jeter cards sold by them but if there are many of these in circulation then people are going to run in the opposite direction when they see them - real or fake.

eBay isnít to blame for this. They provide a market place and these guys have found a way to work their system. The only way they can avoid this is to demand that every card sold is graded and thatís unrealistic. If we start holding public websites responsible for everything posted then every social media site would have to close. No site that deals with the volume that eBay can keep up with every person and every post on it. It would take an army just to tackle the 1952 Mantles.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan1125 (Post 1863419)
Just absolutely sickening. It's bad enough to be a kitchen forger scribbling on your cheap base cards and committing fraud, it's somehow an even lower layer of absolute scum to have this type of "production" process in place. Local authorities should be involved, and if pressed eBay could pop these guys in two seconds. It's simple...follow the money trail.

I am so sick of eBay allowing and enabling absolute FRAUD/SCAMS to the highest degree. I understand they cannot authenticate every item in the world, but there absolutely should be a knowledgeable department handling the reports on questionable items IMHO.

The side of this people forget about, is owners of REAL 95 UD Jeter autos have had their investment DEVALUED over and over every time one of these sells in the flooded market these crooks artificially created...it's infuriating and why true collectors have to rally together and spread the knowledge on this kind of stuff. Thank you Christopher for all you do for our hobby.


Ryan1125 03-18-2019 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports (Post 1863431)

eBay isnít to blame for this. They provide a market place and these guys have found a way to work their system. The only way they can avoid this is to demand that every card sold is graded and thatís unrealistic.

In the most simplest form: eBay profits millions and millions of dollars from forgeries, and provides a platform for these thieves. Without eBay, these guys scam is MUCH harder to thrive from IMHO.

I agree it is a very hard, nearly impossible task to rid eBay of all forgeries/scams/etc. But they should absolutely have some experienced collectors/former authenticators/etc. monitoring this stuff 24/7 and yanking obvious junk, while staying up to date with reporting. I report obvious forgeries all of the time, and it never gets yanked anymore. Most of these little scammers you can see from a mile away. Yank their stuff, and ban them. It should not be as easy as "downloading an app" to run a multi-thousand (or even million) dollar forgery scam.

Even from a moral standpoint if I owned eBay, I would want my customers to feel safe buying stuff on my website. And I certainly would work with local authorities to provide information on scammers/forgery rings that reach this level.

thetruthisoutthere 03-18-2019 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan1125 (Post 1863419)
Just absolutely sickening. It's bad enough to be a kitchen forger scribbling on your cheap base cards and committing fraud, it's somehow an even lower layer of absolute scum to have this type of "production" process in place. Local authorities should be involved, and if pressed eBay could pop these guys in two seconds. It's simple...follow the money trail.

I am so sick of eBay allowing and enabling absolute FRAUD/SCAMS to the highest degree. I understand they cannot authenticate every item in the world, but there absolutely should be a knowledgeable department handling the reports on questionable items IMHO.

The side of this people forget about, is owners of REAL 95 UD Jeter autos have had their investment DEVALUED over and over every time one of these sells in the flooded market these crooks artificially created...it's infuriating and why true collectors have to rally together and spread the knowledge on this kind of stuff. Thank you Christopher for all you do for our hobby.

Ryan, thank you, and it is disgusting and it's fraud.

I am trying to get law enforcement involved in this.

This is the kind of crap that autograph collectors have to deal and compete with.

thetruthisoutthere 03-18-2019 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan1125 (Post 1863444)
In the most simplest form: eBay profits millions and millions of dollars from forgeries, and provides a platform for these thieves. Without eBay, these guys scam is MUCH harder to thrive from IMHO.

I agree it is a very hard, nearly impossible task to rid eBay of all forgeries/scams/etc. But they should absolutely have some experienced collectors/former authenticators/etc. monitoring this stuff 24/7 and yanking obvious junk, while staying up to date with reporting. I report obvious forgeries all of the time, and it never gets yanked anymore. Most of these little scammers you can see from a mile away. Yank their stuff, and ban them. It should not be as easy as "downloading an app" to run a multi-thousand (or even million) dollar forgery scam.

Even from a moral standpoint if I owned eBay, I would want my customers to feel safe buying stuff on my website. And I certainly would work with local authorities to provide information on scammers/forgery rings that reach this level.

Ebay has no morals--It's only about the flood of money they receive from the sales of forgeries.

Look how long the sellers of the Florida forgeries have been permitted to sell their forgeries printed on inkjet paper.

And what about so-called "forensic authenticators" like Stephen Rocchi and GFA!!!

biohazard 03-19-2019 04:49 PM

Oh, this creases me. I would have simply bought the back. If it is not already happened the Jeter 2000 Fleer Greats of the Game autograph is next.

thetruthisoutthere 03-19-2019 05:24 PM

Sandy Koufax
 
3 Attachment(s)
Perform a Ebay search on "Sold Auctions" of the below "2000 Upper Deck Chirography Sandy Koufax" auto card of Sandy Koufax.

Check out the Ebay seller names.

Same sellers who have been selling the forged Derek Jeter counterfeit UD card.

Screenshots:



Attachment 347967

Attachment 347968

Attachment 347969

thetruthisoutthere 03-19-2019 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports (Post 1862666)
They also seem to have a large supply of 2009 Harper autos, 2000 Kobe autos, 2003 mays autos, 1992 Ali autos, 1997 mays autos, 2001 Unitas autos, 2001 starr autos, 2003 pujols autos and 2000 Skybox Brady rookies to go along with the Jeter autos and 2017 judge blank back cards. Looks like thousands $$ per month in sales.

Yep.

It extends to:

2000 Koufax Chirography Autos.

2000 Kobe Ovation.

2003 Mays Topps Legends.

The same sellers have been selling these in numbers.

I am sure there are other cards.

thetruthisoutthere 03-19-2019 07:29 PM

Kobe Bryant 2000 UD Ovation
 
1 Attachment(s)
Same sellers.

Just a small sampling.




Attachment 347973

thetruthisoutthere 03-19-2019 08:42 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Look at the Kobe cards below.

Observe the small "r" in the word "Signatures" on the bottom of both cards.

If you have a magnifier on your PC, you will see what I am referring to.




Attachment 347981

Michael B 03-19-2019 08:55 PM

Chris,

There are a lot of clues in the forgeries. I am assuming the one on the left is the fake. The size of the overall image on the cardstock. The UD logo is almost touching the edge on the one on the left. More of the basketball is cut off. The four highlight lines on the right hand side are almost missing. The overall balance is way off.

thetruthisoutthere 03-20-2019 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael B (Post 1863801)
Chris,

There are a lot of clues in the forgeries. I am assuming the one on the left is the fake. The size of the overall image on the cardstock. The UD logo is almost touching the edge on the one on the left. More of the basketball is cut off. The four highlight lines on the right hand side are almost missing. The overall balance is way off.

Absolutely correct, Michael.

These are all over Ebay.

shelly 03-20-2019 09:45 AM

Chris, call your girl at the FBI

rjackson44 03-23-2019 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports (Post 1861940)
Someone has been faking these for a few years now. The same people have made fake 2017 Judge heritage blank back cards.

Agreed unreal it wont end ever;;

bigfanNY 03-23-2019 03:09 PM

TnT north jersey Has a 2017 Blank back Aaron Judge listed in their sold items. They used to set up at White plains. I will definitely go next show and see if they still set up snd have any of these cards. Such a shame.
For clarity most of the Willie Mays fakes have been listed as 1997 Topps not 2003. Both are in the style of 1964 topps so any 1964 looking Mays auto should send up a red flag.
There has been an article written about 2001 Upper deck legends Football fakes Johnny Unitas is one of many.
Based on how the cards look in hand I don't think they would pass any TPG but I would be very careful even with one of them.

thetruthisoutthere 03-23-2019 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfanNY (Post 1864616)
TnT north jersey Has a 2017 Blank back Aaron Judge listed in their sold items. They used to set up at White plains. I will definitely go next show and see if they still set up snd have any of these cards. Such a shame.
For clarity most of the Willie Mays fakes have been listed as 1997 Topps not 2003. Both are in the style of 1964 topps so any 1964 looking Mays auto should send up a red flag.
There has been an article written about 2001 Upper deck legends Football fakes Johnny Unitas is one of many.
Based on how the cards look in hand I don't think they would pass any TPG but I would be very careful even with one of them.

Part 2 of my blog will be published soon.

thetruthisoutthere 03-23-2019 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael B (Post 1863801)
Chris,

There are a lot of clues in the forgeries. I am assuming the one on the left is the fake. The size of the overall image on the cardstock. The UD logo is almost touching the edge on the one on the left. More of the basketball is cut off. The four highlight lines on the right hand side are almost missing. The overall balance is way off.

Michael, good catch on the location of the basketball.


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