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-   -   Baseball stoppage 2022? (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=264490)

KCRfan1 01-13-2019 11:47 AM

Baseball stoppage 2022?
 
This is only 3 short years away.

Players are handsomely paid and both owners and players would be foolish to not get things settled ahead of time.

What is everyones thoughts?

The STL Post Dispatch has a great article, but I can't get it to link.

clydepepper 01-13-2019 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCRfan1 (Post 1844931)
This is only 3 short years away.

Players are handsomely paid and both owners and players would be foolish to not get things settled ahead of time.

What is everyones thoughts?

The STL Post Dispatch has a great article, but I can't get it to link.



My thought is:

SHUT-UP!!

Do we really have to start worrying about that now?


.

AGuinness 01-13-2019 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCRfan1 (Post 1844931)
This is only 3 short years away.

Players are handsomely paid and both owners and players would be foolish to not get things settled ahead of time.

What is everyones thoughts?

The STL Post Dispatch has a great article, but I can't get it to link.

I think it's a worthwhile discussion to have - the players seem to have really lost big in the last CBA negotiations on many fronts (I'm guessing the article you reference may address that - I know Yahoo has recently in a story about Machado/Harper/big contracts). I think a work stoppage is inevitable.

The players may get paid handsomely, but I think they deserve it and more (that includes minor league players). The owners are lining their pockets even more, and I'd rather see more money go to the talent on the field.

Yastrzemski Sports 01-14-2019 05:48 AM

The big contracts from the 90s and 2000s are becoming a thing of the past. The myth is that these players make huge money and donít need any more. The reality is that itís tough to get that big money today and very few do. Take Aaron Judge for example. In his first 2 years he has made $1.1 million - total. Nice money for us but way less than he deserves. He wonít be a free agent until 2023 when he is 31 years old and then good luck. It seems that teams have finally learned that they shouldnít pay a 30+ year old player a monster contract because their best years are behind them - see Pujols, Cabrera, Ellsbury, Zito, A-Rod, etc, etc. The market took a big swing last year when the contracts stopped all at once and a lot of players were left taking a fraction of what they would have received a couple years earlier or got nothing at all. The 2 players that got big money - Hosmer and Darvish are already looking like a disaster. Harper and Machado are still waiting because no team is looking to burden themselves with a player for 10 years - those deals almost never work out for the team. And those guys are rare because they got into baseball so young.
The league is going to have to do something. Players need to be able to make money in their 20s because a lot of players in their 30s are getting smaller deals or just find themselves unemployed and disappear because there are plenty of guys in the farm system who can take their place. At the same time attendance is declining. So baseball has a lot of problems and they are heading for an inevitable clash. I hope they learned from 1994 and never strike again but they have to start working on a new deal sooner rather than later to avoid a huge problem. You are right to be worried because if baseball goes on strike again it may not recover.

rats60 01-14-2019 06:52 AM

Players are eligible for arbitration after 3 years and start getting big money then. Kris Bryant made almost 11 million dollars last year with only 2 years experience and will make over 12 this year. Bryce Harper got 13.6 and then 21.6 million in arbitration years. Mike Trout by signing a longer term deal is getting 34 million before he can be a free agent. It is a two sided sword. Owners don't want to pay a young guy big money because he has 1 good season, they want him to prove himself over a longer period before he starts getting paid big bucks. They are also paying out big signing bonus when players are drafted. Aaron Judge will be fine if he keeps performing.

Yastrzemski Sports 01-14-2019 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60 (Post 1845156)
Players are eligible for arbitration after 3 years and start getting big money then. Kris Bryant made almost 11 million dollars last year with only 2 years experience and will make over 12 this year. Bryce Harper got 13.6 and then 21.6 million in arbitration years. Mike Trout by signing a longer term deal is getting 34 million before he can be a free agent. It is a two sided sword. Owners don't want to pay a young guy big money because he has 1 good season, they want him to prove himself over a longer period before he starts getting paid big bucks. They are also paying out big signing bonus when players are drafted. Aaron Judge will be fine if he keeps performing.

When you have a union, the interests of the majority have to be represented. So the elite players you mentioned above made nice money and will be fine. Mookie Betts made $2 mil his first 3 years in baseball - total, $10 mil last year and $20 next year - because heís a huge talent. But for a majority of the players your first 7 years under team control are difficult and most players donít have that kind of leverage to negotiate but at the same time canít leave. So they are at the mercy of the team. Then when free agency comes around most players are 30 and teams donít want them. It was different a few years ago when a 30 year old could get $50-100 mil and never had to worry about money. Mike Moustakas is a perfect example. Heís had a decent career and is a very good player. Last year he took a 1 yr $5.5 mil deal and this year he hasnít signed yet and no one seems to be throwing offers out there. They would rather bring up kids from the farm. If Betts was a free agent right now he would be looking at $30+ mil per year instead of $20. If Moustakas had negotiating power 5 years ago he could have had the chance to get a big multi year deal. And thatís where the next CBA is going to lead. Players are going to be free agents much sooner in their career.

Leon 01-14-2019 08:09 AM

I never really watched MLB the way I did before 1994, after the strike. I said F MLB for the strike and never went back. Never really missed it either. I still love the game though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports (Post 1845147)
The big contracts from the 90s and 2000s are becoming a thing of the past. The myth is that these players make huge money and donít need any more. The reality is that itís tough to get that big money today and very few do. Take Aaron Judge for example. In his first 2 years he has made $1.1 million - total. Nice money for us but way less than he deserves. He wonít be a free agent until 2023 when he is 31 years old and then good luck. It seems that teams have finally learned that they shouldnít pay a 30+ year old player a monster contract because their best years are behind them - see Pujols, Cabrera, Ellsbury, Zito, A-Rod, etc, etc. The market took a big swing last year when the contracts stopped all at once and a lot of players were left taking a fraction of what they would have received a couple years earlier or got nothing at all. The 2 players that got big money - Hosmer and Darvish are already looking like a disaster. Harper and Machado are still waiting because no team is looking to burden themselves with a player for 10 years - those deals almost never work out for the team. And those guys are rare because they got into baseball so young.
The league is going to have to do something. Players need to be able to make money in their 20s because a lot of players in their 30s are getting smaller deals or just find themselves unemployed and disappear because there are plenty of guys in the farm system who can take their place. At the same time attendance is declining. So baseball has a lot of problems and they are heading for an inevitable clash. I hope they learned from 1994 and never strike again but they have to start working on a new deal sooner rather than later to avoid a huge problem. You are right to be worried because if baseball goes on strike again it may not recover.


Django7975 01-14-2019 09:05 AM

Leon. I agree. Is the same for me. Being a Braves fan and suffering through all the home town choking of the early 90ís then the strike of 94 right when we felt like we were going to finally win one. Then 95 came and braves won. I honestly could have cared less. I have just now got back into watching baseball like I did before the 94 junk last season. Acuna makes the league minimum. Chopfest prices for signatures are crazy this year. I donít know where they game is headed but I love the books of older players like Kit Carson And 3 finger ol mordecai brown. I wish we could go back to those days and just forget the money. Such a shame to me why the worship of mammon must bastardize all good things. Shame shame


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KCRfan1 01-14-2019 09:32 AM

The Moustakas contract was closely followed by us in KC. It was strongly rumored he had a 4 year 60 mil offer from the Angels, and turned it down for more.

Not many teams needed 3rd base help, and that greatly limited his suitors and Moose settled for a 1 year 6 or 7 mil deal. ( You better believe the wife had A LOT to say to the agent and the hubby about this decision! )

This is purely on his agent and lastly on Moose.

The agent works for the player, not the other way around. Moose is a SoCal guy, his wife is a SoCal girl, and this is where their family is. The Angels make perfect sense as a landing spot for Moose.

Now Moose is a year older and STILL waiting for a contract and is an afterthought to the big names. He and his agent made a huge mistake potentially passing on a contract for more money. As a side note, surprisingly, Moose kept the agent. I think I would have fired my agent after that mess.




Quote:

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports (Post 1845164)
When you have a union, the interests of the majority have to be represented. So the elite players you mentioned above made nice money and will be fine. Mookie Betts made $2 mil his first 3 years in baseball - total, $10 mil last year and $20 next year - because he’s a huge talent. But for a majority of the players your first 7 years under team control are difficult and most players don’t have that kind of leverage to negotiate but at the same time can’t leave. So they are at the mercy of the team. Then when free agency comes around most players are 30 and teams don’t want them. It was different a few years ago when a 30 year old could get $50-100 mil and never had to worry about money. Mike Moustakas is a perfect example. He’s had a decent career and is a very good player. Last year he took a 1 yr $5.5 mil deal and this year he hasn’t signed yet and no one seems to be throwing offers out there. They would rather bring up kids from the farm. If Betts was a free agent right now he would be looking at $30+ mil per year instead of $20. If Moustakas had negotiating power 5 years ago he could have had the chance to get a big multi year deal. And that’s where the next CBA is going to lead. Players are going to be free agents much sooner in their career.


AGuinness 01-14-2019 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Django7975 (Post 1845187)
I wish we could go back to those days and just forget the money. Such a shame to me why the worship of mammon must bastardize all good things. Shame shame

Maybe money wasn't a big concern in the 1800s, but it wasn't too long after the turn of the century that money had already taken a hold in the sport (see battles of salary, including Tris Speaker and Babe Ruth, not to mention the Black Sox scandal). I'm not a historian, but I'd wager that the different leagues at the time wanted to kill off others because of the finances, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60 (Post 1845156)
They are also paying out big signing bonus when players are drafted. Aaron Judge will be fine if he keeps performing.

Money in the draft and in the international market is basically capped now, too. The owners have done a great job in building a system that limits their biggest expense, the workforce on the field, while the MLBPA has done a really bad job in representing their members.

The record bonus for a draftee is $8 million by Gerrit Cole (Pirates) in 2011. Last year's first overall pick got $7.5 million (under the slot amount of just over $8 million). Using an inflation calculator, Cole's $8 million in 2011 translates to nearly $9 million for 2018. Meanwhile, MLB had the 16th consecutive year in setting the record for revenue (despite down attendance and flat TV revenue) (source: Forbes).

I think the players see this as a raw deal and will take a strong stand to really change the current system, and I doubt the owners will give in easily. And my impression is that with so much youth in baseball now, there aren't many players that were even old enough to remember the 1994 strike (a 30-year-old player in 2018 would have been 6 in 1994). It's going to be ugly.


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