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  #121  
Old 05-08-2018, 10:39 AM
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Kyle May
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The federal government and local government are two separate entities and your post is blurring the lines between them in several areas. Our government is not the government of Florida unless you live in Florida. People aren't corrupt by default because of where they come from (Chicago, for example) and you don't really give any credit to high school students being able to think for themselves. You are simultaneously suggesting these kids are victims of group think while also suggesting they should think the way you do. That's a contradiction.
- Not sure where I blurred the lines between the two. Both the FBI and local law enforcement were aware of Cruz.

- Not sure what your point is about our government not being Florida's government. So are only people from Florida allowed to comment on this matter?

- You're right, people aren't corrupt by default because of where they are from. However, context clues, a track record of corruption, and common sense tells us not to trust politicians, let alone from Chicago. By the way, Chicago is a perfect example of gun control being not only ineffective, but detrimental to the public's safety.

- I refuse to give credit for their ability to think for themselves when the original school walkout was organized by Empower, not individual students. I've also seen many interviews that suggest they are very uneducated on the subjects they are bringing attention to.

- They are absolutely victims of group think, but I do not want them to think like me. I want them to have all of the facts, something I know for a fact they aren't provided with in school, and simply for them to think. If they end up thinking like me in the end, fine, but I just want them to think.


Instead of trying to (incorrectly) nit-pick any sort of semantics in my post and try to demean me politically, do you have any comments on my suggestions to prevent future mass shootings?
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Last edited by KMayUSA6060; 05-08-2018 at 10:41 AM.
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  #122  
Old 05-08-2018, 11:05 AM
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I wasn't demeaning you at all. I just thought it's important to distinguish between generalities. For example, you had said our government gets a strike because the guard on duty and local law enforcement didn't enter the school. That's not a strike against our government, that's a strike against two individuals who work for local law enforcement.

Last edited by packs; 05-08-2018 at 11:05 AM.
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  #123  
Old 05-08-2018, 11:09 AM
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Kyle May
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Originally Posted by packs View Post
I wasn't demeaning you at all. I just thought it's important to distinguish between generalities. For example, you had said our government gets a strike because the guard on duty and local law enforcement didn't enter the school. That's not a strike against our government, that's a strike against two individuals who work for local law enforcement.
This just single-handily ended this entire debate (albeit with an incorrect statement since there were more than 2 security/law enforcement individuals that did not enter the building).

Blame the individual, not the government, which could also be re-worded for this discussion.

Blame the individual, not the gun.
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  #124  
Old 05-08-2018, 11:10 AM
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I wasn't debating. I was pointing out generalities in your post, like the one referenced above, a person being corrupt by default because of where they're from, and you not giving people credit for their own thoughts.

I guess I wasn't clear either: "our government" isn't the government of Florida, which is who those enforcement agents work for. So our government played no role in the local officials failing to enter the building, who are part of Florida's state and local government agencies.

Last edited by packs; 05-08-2018 at 12:39 PM.
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  #125  
Old 05-08-2018, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060 View Post
... do you have any comments on my suggestions to prevent future mass shootings?
"Arm the teachers in a voluntary manner, while providing proper training. Cut funding elsewhere, most likely athletically, to balance the expenses and not burden taxpayers any further".

While I do like your suggestions, in general, I personally place a very high value on youth athletics. I know my town does spend a lot of money on youth sports, but a lot of it is also parents volunteering (coaching/concession stand/running the leagues/maintaining fields) and donations from sponsors. I rank kids being active higher than arming the teachers, if I was in charge of portioning money.

And I'm also torn on whether to arm the teachers. Good points have been made for/against it, so while I'd be open to it, I wouldn't "pull the trigger" (bad pun, sorry) if I were in charge of making the decision.
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  #126  
Old 05-08-2018, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
I wasn't debating. I was pointing out generalities in your post, like the one referenced above, a person being corrupt by default because of where they're from, and you not giving people credit for their own thoughts.

I guess I wasn't clear either: "our government" isn't the government of Florida, which is who those enforcement agents work for. So our government played no role in the day's failings of local officials who are part of Florida's government agencies.
I actually never stated that he was corrupt. I inferred it based on the corruption in Chicago, but that's well known and documented. Again, these aren't the thoughts of individuals, but rather the thoughts of a group being followed by the students, largely in a blind manner. I can't in good conscious give credit for that.

The FBI is the FEDERAL Bureau of Investigation, and were tipped off on Cruz. They were well involved, and failed to do their job. Whether it be a Florida office location or not, they are still part of the federal government. Additionally, again speaking in a general sense, I talked about the flaws in our education system, which stem from the Department of Education, a federal department.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger8mush View Post
"Arm the teachers in a voluntary manner, while providing proper training. Cut funding elsewhere, most likely athletically, to balance the expenses and not burden taxpayers any further".

While I do like your suggestions, in general, I personally place a very high value on youth athletics. I know my town does spend a lot of money on youth sports, but a lot of it is also parents volunteering (coaching/concession stand/running the leagues/maintaining fields) and donations from sponsors. I rank kids being active higher than arming the teachers, if I was in charge of portioning money.

And I'm also torn on whether to arm the teachers. Good points have been made for/against it, so while I'd be open to it, I wouldn't "pull the trigger" (bad pun, sorry) if I were in charge of making the decision.
I agree on finding other ways in the budget or other ways in general to fund the training for teachers, as I like school athletics as well. I only said athletics because it's the least detrimental to the academics side of school.

I'm not for arming all teachers. Like I said, it would have to be done in a voluntary manner. There are many teachers that are military veterans, and with others being gun enthusiasts (see Hickock45 on YouTube). I think those are the type of people who would make a great second line of defense.
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  #127  
Old 05-08-2018, 06:33 PM
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It ALL comes down to personal responsibility and accountability.

THAT, IMO, covers the entire discussion!


I cannot believe that anyone would argue against that, but you probably will.


...and, that, is the world we live in...
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  #128  
Old 05-18-2018, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
I wasn't debating. I was pointing out generalities in your post, like the one referenced above, a person being corrupt by default because of where they're from, and you not giving people credit for their own thoughts.

I guess I wasn't clear either: "our government" isn't the government of Florida, which is who those enforcement agents work for. So our government played no role in the local officials failing to enter the building, who are part of Florida's state and local government agencies.
http://abc7chicago.com/politics/repo...in-us/3478310/
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  #129  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:20 AM
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Again I really have no idea what you're trying to say. So if you're just some guy born in Chicago it's totally acceptable to make pre-conceived judgments about your character?
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  #130  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:18 AM
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Maybe, if that person is a Cub fan
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