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Old 05-11-2003, 03:01 AM
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Default Clean Front & Back?

Posted By: Lee Behrens

This seems to be the latest craze in describing cards. What is it suppose to mean? Did the just wash them? If there is anyone out there using this description, please explain to me how it describes the condition of the card.
The biggest thing not listed in the description is whether a card is creased or has surface wrinkles, you can tell most corner wear by scans. Vague descriptions scare me away from alot of auctions.

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Old 05-11-2003, 04:38 AM
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Default Clean Front & Back?

Posted By: jay behrens

I was mean a 'clean card' if stainging is an issue, such as with caramel cards.

Jay

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Old 05-11-2003, 02:48 PM
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Default Clean Front & Back?

Posted By: Hankron

I use the term 'clean' in my descriptions. For me, at least, it means 'no problems.' A completely clean card would have no ceases, wrinkles, stains or such. As I don't think I ever sell anything in Mint condition and reasonably describe all condition probblems, the description usually is something on the order of: "There is corner and edge wear and a wrinkle in the upper left corner of the back. Otherwise the card clean," or "No other problems."

I'm sure I'll take the heat, but I sometimes even use the description: "Crease in the upper right corner. Otherwise Near Mint." I should point out that I sell almost no cards, so these descriptions are applied to different types of products. For something like a metal press pin, 'clean' probabably sounds more appropriate.

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Old 05-11-2003, 02:58 PM
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Default Clean Front & Back?

Posted By: Hankron

As I know how anal retentive trading card collectors are about condition (not criticizing), even though I'm a 'clean' guy, when offering a single trading card I would mention all problems and also specifically say something like "No other creases, wrinkles or other condition problems." See, you card guys scare me.

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Old 05-11-2003, 03:07 PM
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Default Clean Front & Back?

Posted By: Mike Williams

I also use the term "clean". Mind you, "clean" is a subjective term (as with most adjectives used to describe a card) but for me, it's more of a reference to the surfaces, print quality and toning/aging.

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Old 05-11-2003, 03:25 PM
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Default Clean Front & Back?

Posted By: petecld

I've used "clean" in my descriptions too and I don't see a problem. It means the card surface is w/o stains or dirt spots.

C'mon, you have to say something. Just saying "one crease", "one wrinkle", etc. though accurate doesn't give a good overall impression of the condition of the card. I know it's taboo but I don't even have a big problem with phrases like "ex - except for one crease". If that phrase is accurate, so be it, jusy don't abuse the use. I rely on photos over descriptions anyway.

I do have a problem with guys like the one who has a D310 on ebay right now that has the 4 borders cut off and his description is - "w/tight cut."

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Old 05-11-2003, 04:23 PM
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Default Clean Front & Back?

Posted By: brian parker

I have used "clean" before when referring to backs of cards I am selling when I don't provide a back scan. To me it indicates (on the back of the card) that there are no significant issues with the back (creases, staining, writing), and that the bidder can be assured that there won't be any unwelcome surprises when they receive the card.

Like Pete, I have a problem with sellers like the one he mentioned that is selling the trimmed and butchered D310 with a description of "tight cut". Here is another card that he has for sale:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2728614901&category=31719

To just describe this card as low grade is both deceitful and a real disservice to the bidder. Perhaps you are not overly familiar with this issue, since it is rarely seen and fairly scarce--you might believe the seller has called it low grade because of the creases in the scan. Like that E106 Mathewson with the whited-out eyes that I pointed out in a previous thread, it is the obligation of a seller to accurately relate any serious conditional problems to the buyer.

Sure, as a buyer you need to be knowledgeable about what you collect and use a certain amount of common sense, but even long-time collectors will get caught every once in awhile. I had been collecting vintage bb cards for over 15 years when I started buying on ebay, and one of the first wins was a card of a HOF player from a set that I did not recognize--I was excited about my pick-up. When I received it I realized that the card had been cut from a 4-1 Exhibit card. The seller had not mentioned this fact in his description (it is possible that he did not know), and actually had not even identified what set it was from. The seller, while not acknowledging that the card was indeed cut from an Exhibit, was at least willing to offer my money back.

Bottom line is, as a seller you need to provide as much information as reasonable about the card, whether you provide an awesome scan or not, because the buyer is entitled to know. A trim should be identified, writing on the card pointed out whether obvious or not on the scan, etc. To call a front or back clean is fine, as long as there are no significant defects. If so, then you note them. It is the golden rule of selling--treat the buyer as you would like to be treated yourself. Unfortunately, this quite often is not adhered to due to laziness or greed.

Brian

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Old 05-11-2003, 05:14 PM
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Default Clean Front & Back?

Posted By: julie

With a Cracker aJack, I'd be more likely to say "no stains." CleaN MEANS NO MARKS, EXTRANEOUS, NO DIRT FROM BEING HANDLED, NO CORNERS WHICH HAVE GOTTEN ROUNDED AND ALLOWED DIRT TO CREEP INTO THE EDGES--JUST CLEAN! other description is also necessary--centering, register, corners, color, creases, wrinkles. But clean means--clean.

It's not vague when used with all those other things!

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