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  #51  
Old 01-26-2017, 04:39 PM
PhillipAbbott79 PhillipAbbott79 is offline
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I believe that I have a card which may debunk some of this, or at least adds some level of confusion to what you are trying to unravel.

It has scratches that cross each other or don't go in the direction of the ones that are in the image.

I can't remember the player. I would need to look.

Also, how can you be sure that a given card belongs in the position you have it in when the line on the card cuts through another card in the same spot?

Last edited by PhillipAbbott79; 01-26-2017 at 04:42 PM.
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  #52  
Old 01-26-2017, 06:31 PM
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Pat R Pat R is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79 View Post
I believe that I have a card which may debunk some of this, or at least adds some level of confusion to what you are trying to unravel.

It has scratches that cross each other or don't go in the direction of the ones that are in the image.

I can't remember the player. I would need to look.

Also, how can you be sure that a given card belongs in the position you have it in when the line on the card cuts through another card in the same spot?
Without seeing the card I can't be sure but you might be talking about one
from another plate scratch sheet. There are four that have scratches that
cross each other from different directions on three different sheets.

There is a Seymour on this sheet
Semour%201a_1.jpg
Sheet%20F-B%20Highlighted.jpg

A Doyle and Stone on this sheet
Doyle%202_1.jpgStone%202_1.jpg
Sheet%20C-D%20Highlighted%20-%20Copy%20-%20Copy.jpg

And a Cobb on this sheet
Cobb%20_bat_%202.jpg
Sheet%20F%20-A%20Highlighted.jpg

I'm not sure if this is what you're referring to with your other question but the back of the sheet in this
thread was used for two different fronts so there are two subjects with the same scratch for each position.
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  #53  
Old 01-26-2017, 06:42 PM
PhillipAbbott79 PhillipAbbott79 is offline
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Yes. I am referring ones that you have shown.

I still see room for some of them to be transposed with other positions, but admittedly haven't studied everything THAT hard to take an opposing view.
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  #54  
Old 01-27-2017, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79 View Post
Yes. I am referring ones that you have shown.

I still see room for some of them to be transposed with other positions, but admittedly haven't studied everything THAT hard to take an opposing view.
There are similar scratches in different positions but they don't work if you try to rearrange them. Some of the closest matches are Weimer/Pastorius with Powell/Goode and Criger/Davis,H. with Hinchman/Sheckard. I Have most of these cards in hand and I've experimented with them in different positions before I established this layout.
attachment.jpg
Weimer-Pastorius-Criger-Davis.jpgWeimer-Pastorius-Hinchman-Sheckard.jpg
Powell-Goode-Hinchman-Sheckard.jpgPowell-Goode-Criger-Davis.jpg

There is also a miscut SC150 Sheckard that shows part of Wilbur Goode.
Sheckard-Goode SC150.jpg
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  #55  
Old 05-18-2017, 08:05 PM
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I just picked up a new previously unconfirmed Weimer scratch that fits
the pattern of one of the three rows of scratches on this sheet.
The scratches from this row are difficult to spot because this scratch
is consistently much lighter than the other two.
img257.jpg
img259.jpg
Sheet [A-B] X Large updated.jpg
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  #56  
Old 05-23-2017, 06:19 PM
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Nice work here, Pat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
I just picked up a new previously unconfirmed Weimer scratch that fits
the pattern of one of the three rows of scratches on this sheet.
The scratches from this row are difficult to spot because this scratch
is consistently much lighter than the other two.
Attachment 273511
Attachment 273512
Attachment 273513
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  #57  
Old 05-24-2017, 03:31 AM
PhillipAbbott79 PhillipAbbott79 is offline
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Some of the cards in your image don't have any marks on them. How are you determining that those players go in those spots? Assuming miss cut cards and double names?

Also, your analysis would mean that they printed 2 piedmont 150 sheets of 4 rows of 17 and 1 sheet with a 9th row of 20.

What is the theory on the remaining cards? 17 plus the 3 wonders(Magie, Plank and Wagner)?
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  #58  
Old 05-24-2017, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79 View Post
Some of the cards in your image don't have any marks on them. How are you determining that those players go in those spots? Assuming miss cut cards and double names?

Also, your analysis would mean that they printed 2 piedmont 150 sheets of 4 rows of 17 and 1 sheet with a 9th row of 20.

What is the theory on the remaining cards? 17 plus the 3 wonders(Magie, Plank and Wagner)?
Hi Phillip, I think understand your questions but I'm not sure about your first question. If you're talking about the X's on the sheet I add them to the sheet when I find a new scratch (like the recent Weimer).
I made this sheet by connecting existing scratches to give me an idea on location and subjects for unconfirmed scratches. If there is no X then that scratch is currently unconfirmed.
There are two subjects for each scratch one is a SC649 subject and the other a non 649 subject the Red are the 649's and the Blue are non 649 subjects that are confirmed.

For example there should be a Pastorius scratch that matches this new weimer
and next to that scratch there is an unconfirmed scratch that should be found on Criger and H. Davis (circled on the image below).
Sheet [A-B] X Large updated Criger-Davis.jpg
I think I might be confusing some people with the three different scratches.
The vertical location of these scratches are just for my research I don't know where they were on the sheet and the middle one is short because I haven't
found any scratches on the right side to connect to yet.

If in your first question your referring to the areas with no scratches there are other plate scratch sheets that indicate at least 12 vertical rows with the same subject, this is just my opinion but I think all of the plate scratch sheets had the same vertical subject for the whole sheet.


As far as the sheet size and Magie, Plank and Wagner. There were a few
different printings for the PD150 sheets and several changes were made so the number isn't actually 156 for the sheets. Magie was changed to Magee
so that would only count as one. There are a few PD150 Plank's and Wagner's but they are scraps. Crawford (throwing) was a late addition and Lundgren (Chicago) and Jennings (Portrait) were later additions.

Personally I think there were a few different size sheets although I do think
all of the PD150 sheets with the scratches were printed close to the same time and were probably the same size.

Because of the amount of T206's that were printed I also think it's reasonable to consider that there were sheets
printed at some of the other facility's owned by American Lithograph at the time not just their original NY facility.
img272.jpg
img272 - Copy.jpg
img272 - Copy (2).jpg

Last edited by Pat R; 05-24-2017 at 11:31 AM.
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  #59  
Old 05-24-2017, 12:53 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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Nice work Pat.

I've been looking at Magies, and there are some flawed backs that I'm fairly sure don't appear with any other front, even the Magees.

I need to write it up eventually, but I also think there were at least three different printings of most fronts in the 150 series. With the less common cards being printed only once and not necessarily on the same sheet.

I'm still thinking the 8 from the middle fit to the right of the sheet layout. But being sure of that would require matching a so far unconfirmed weimer/pastorious with the O'Leary.

I've also thought that more than one printing plant may have been involved. Nothing really solid to base it on, but a hunch based on the number issued and the other sets that share some of the pictures. The orange borders were produced here in Lowell, and share a few pictures. The company specialized in novelty candy boxes. One day I want to get to the local historical society and see if they have any info on the company which as far as I can tell moved to Lowell from Boston around 1910 and went out of business shortly after that.

Steve B
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  #60  
Old 05-25-2017, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
Nice work Pat.

I've been looking at Magies, and there are some flawed backs that I'm fairly sure don't appear with any other front, even the Magees.

I need to write it up eventually, but I also think there were at least three different printings of most fronts in the 150 series. With the less common cards being printed only once and not necessarily on the same sheet.

I'm still thinking the 8 from the middle fit to the right of the sheet layout. But being sure of that would require matching a so far unconfirmed weimer/pastorious with the O'Leary.

I've also thought that more than one printing plant may have been involved. Nothing really solid to base it on, but a hunch based on the number issued and the other sets that share some of the pictures. The orange borders were produced here in Lowell, and share a few pictures. The company specialized in novelty candy boxes. One day I want to get to the local historical society and see if they have any info on the company which as far as I can tell moved to Lowell from Boston around 1910 and went out of business shortly after that.

Steve B
Thanks Steve, I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the middle scratch is a
third horizontal scratch on this sheet. There are two subjects (Conroy and Williams) with three different horizontal scratches. I Just realized that I didn't
update the sheet to include the third Conroy.

Here's the updated sheet
Sheet [A-B] X Large updated.jpg

Here are the 3 Conroy's
Conroy [1] Back.jpg
Conroy 5 Back.jpg
Conroy Back [4].jpg

and the 3 William's
Williams [1] Back.jpg
Williams Back [3].jpg
Williams Back [4].jpg

Last edited by Pat R; 05-26-2017 at 08:22 AM.
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