NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Golf / Soccer / Cricket Cards Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 01-23-2016, 08:02 PM
rayj rayj is offline
member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 4
Default Monte Cudine

Hi Guys: Fairly new to the site. Think that I posted a reply back in 2015.
In any event, I do collect football/soccer cards & stickers quite extensively.
I have enjoyed looking at your postings and images.


All this Monte Cudine information and talk is very interesting, and is certainly of interest to me. I have some DiStefano disc's myself, and to be honest, there is some reluctance on my part, to past on the information that I have obtained on the Monte Cudines.


What I am about to tell you begs the asking of more questions and speculation into what the truth might be. When I first received my copy of "Dificiles Erandes De Antes ", the Argentina
book about their cards/stickers, I didn't understand why the 1940's Monte Cudine disc's were not included in the book. So, I e-mailed the co-authors
of the book, Rafael Bitran and Francisco Chiappini, asking why this was the case. Only the one gentleman, Raphael Bitran replied to my e-mail.


I was advised by Mr. Bitran that they did not include the Monte Cudine disc's
in their book because they were aware of laboratory analysis results of the cardboard of the Monte Cudine disc's that proved that the paperboard used was not earlier than the 1970's. Also, that the old images used for the players was taken from Monte Cudine advertisements in the magazine " El Grafico " during the 1940's and 1950's. He indicated to me, that he felt that there was no doubt in their mind, that these disc's were not made in the 1940's.

Your head may be reeling after reading this, as mine was. I still have my
DiStefano disc's and continue to enjoy them. I will never try to grade them, as they can not be authenticated or truly proven. I'm sure sellers will continue to refer to the disc's as 1944-1947. I would like to believe that this is true,but now, I just don't know.

best regards, ray.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-24-2016, 11:53 AM
esehombre esehombre is offline
Noel
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 319
Default Monte Cudines

Wow--thanks so much for chiming in Ray. What an insight and great work on your behalf. I understand your reluctance to post this but I applaud your integrity.
And you are absolutely correct that this does open up so many more questions than it answers. The ads from the 40's and 50's obviously portray Monte Cudine alcohol along with the pictures of players, etc. Can anyone testify with 100% certainty that they were inserted into the bottles? And why would you advertise the discs and NOT include them with the product? Seems to me it was the primary reason for including them with the advertisements! When were the tests conducted and why? Who conducted them? For what purpose? Is it possible there were discs issued from the 40's and 50's and then "reprints" from the 70's. Were these tests conducted independently and how can you obtain the results.
It certainly warrants more research but it will be tough to get straightforward answers especially if these studies have some validity.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-24-2016, 01:41 PM
aljurgela's Avatar
aljurgela aljurgela is offline
Al Jurgela
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sc
Posts: 258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayj View Post
Hi Guys: Fairly new to the site. Think that I posted a reply back in 2015.
In any event, I do collect football/soccer cards & stickers quite extensively.
I have enjoyed looking at your postings and images.


All this Monte Cudine information and talk is very interesting, and is certainly of interest to me. I have some DiStefano disc's myself, and to be honest, there is some reluctance on my part, to past on the information that I have obtained on the Monte Cudines.


What I am about to tell you begs the asking of more questions and speculation into what the truth might be. When I first received my copy of "Dificiles Erandes De Antes ", the Argentina
book about their cards/stickers, I didn't understand why the 1940's Monte Cudine disc's were not included in the book. So, I e-mailed the co-authors
of the book, Rafael Bitran and Francisco Chiappini, asking why this was the case. Only the one gentleman, Raphael Bitran replied to my e-mail.


I was advised by Mr. Bitran that they did not include the Monte Cudine disc's
in their book because they were aware of laboratory analysis results of the cardboard of the Monte Cudine disc's that proved that the paperboard used was not earlier than the 1970's. Also, that the old images used for the players was taken from Monte Cudine advertisements in the magazine " El Grafico " during the 1940's and 1950's. He indicated to me, that he felt that there was no doubt in their mind, that these disc's were not made in the 1940's.

Your head may be reeling after reading this, as mine was. I still have my
DiStefano disc's and continue to enjoy them. I will never try to grade them, as they can not be authenticated or truly proven. I'm sure sellers will continue to refer to the disc's as 1944-1947. I would like to believe that this is true,but now, I just don't know.

best regards, ray.
Thanks Ray... just like Noel says, this makes things quite interesting.... will need to continue to look into this - especially due to the points that Noel points out... why advertise the product, but not follow through....

Despite all this information, does anybody have a complete checklist? Thanks.
__________________
Al Jurgela
Looking for:
1910 Punch (Plank)
50 Hage's Dairy (Minoso)
All Oscar Charleston Cards
Rare Soccer cards
Rare Boxing cards
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-25-2016, 06:05 PM
wake.up.the.echoes wake.up.the.echoes is offline
Alan Zimmerman
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 514
Default

Hey guys (especially Noel),
What RayJ said echoes what I have heard re: the monte cudine cards, and I think that is what I was alluding to in my earlier post but I just couldn't say it right. Thanks RayJ for the education. I appreciate the time you took to post on the subject and in my mind these cards are still pretty cool. If you look on mercado libre and some of the other foreign auction sites, you can find pictures of the advertisements and pictures of the discs in huge piles of a hundred or more. It always seemed odd to me that cards supposedly from the 40s and 50s and produced in such a humid climate existed in such quantities but given what we have just learned, it makes sense now. Anyway, for me it doesn't take away from the cards except that they aren't "rookies" anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-09-2017, 10:45 AM
samosa4u's Avatar
samosa4u samosa4u is offline
member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 29
Default

PSA is starting to encapsulate these discs now. They are being labelled as a 1946 issue. I know that PSA is really tough when it comes to grading new collectibles. A lot of them get rejected due to lack of documentation which PSA requires. Now since these discs are being encapsulated, someone out there must have some important information that we are not aware of.

RayJ's post is interesting. The thing I have noticed is that there are variations in this set. Please see the attached images below:
One has a black ring on the front and black lettering on the reverse. The other variation is missing the black ring and has green lettering instead. Also, you will notice that there is a red patch on the left side of his shirt. Maybe one is a reprint while the other is authentic? So far, I have seen 3 PSA graded examples on eBay and all of them were the 'black ring' variation.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Monte_Cudine_Disc_Stefano_2.jpg (71.9 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg Monte_Cudine_Disc_Stefano.jpg (62.1 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by samosa4u; 05-09-2017 at 10:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Monte Irvin passed away RichardSimon Net54baseball Vintage (Pre-WWII) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 23 01-13-2016 02:49 PM
Trying to contact Monte irvin hcv123 Net54baseball Vintage (Pre-WWII) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 8 07-03-2015 04:48 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:15 PM.


ebay GSB