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  #1  
Old 10-05-2018, 11:41 AM
shelly shelly is offline
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Default James Spence

Thought you guys might like to read this.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=41262
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  #2  
Old 10-05-2018, 01:44 PM
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Default who is the best authenticators for vintage autos

who is the best
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  #3  
Old 10-05-2018, 01:46 PM
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never mind. Talking about this is a waste of time.

Last edited by Runscott; 10-05-2018 at 02:15 PM.
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  #4  
Old 10-05-2018, 03:17 PM
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What responsibility do auction houses have to not accept these as consignments?
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  #5  
Old 10-05-2018, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by packs View Post
What responsibility do auction houses have to not accept these as consignments?
What is your opinion? You've been around here for a long time and heard all of these arguments. What do YOU think their responsibility is?

To answer your question - my opinion is that no auction house in their right mind would base consignment decisions on Peter Nash's web-site.

Last edited by Runscott; 10-05-2018 at 07:49 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-05-2018, 08:20 PM
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It has absolutely nothing to do with Peter Nash's website.
We've known for years that those Mathewson bookplates are secretarial.
And Spence knows it, too:


"1910 book plates adhered to the inside front covers of Won in the Ninth have recently come under scrutiny for their controversial legitimacy. These number(ed) (appr. 500) presentational copies have a type written name added with a large and spurious secretarial black fountain pen manuscript. Observe the low initial stroke of the “M” and the oversized lower case letters and the unusual “t-h” combination that is heavily retraced. Overall, this vintage ghost signed anomaly is far more pointed than his other versions….
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  #7  
Old 10-05-2018, 08:27 PM
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I don't believe those signatures are secretarial. The experts could be wrong.

Mathewson's usual signature length is very small. If you look at all of his signed album pages and other items, the signature remains under 3" in length. Most signed checks have signatures measuring < 2.75". Mathewson had tiny handwriting.

The bookplate pasted on the front board of Won In The 9th measures around 5 inches, with the blank space for the signature nearly the entire 5 inches across.

If Mathewson decided to enlarge his signature for whatever reason, maybe to make it more bold, or to take up all of the 5 inches, his handwriting traits could have changed. Doubling the size of his signature may have caused this change, which manifest as some atypical traits. Could be the result of exaggerating the size of his normal handwriting.

Besides, why would he hire a secretary to sign the 500 bookplates? Was he so busy? That's kind of weird. Did ballplayers back in 1910 usually have secretaries?

Last edited by SetBuilder; 10-05-2018 at 08:28 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #8  
Old 10-05-2018, 08:33 PM
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Ten bucks says the majority of comments at the end of Nash’s articles are written by Nash himself.
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  #9  
Old 10-05-2018, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by slidekellyslide View Post
Ten bucks says the majority of comments at the end of Nash’s articles are written by Nash himself.
That could be but one of them at the end of this article brought a smile to my face as i thought it was spot on.
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  #10  
Old 10-05-2018, 08:54 PM
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Besides, why would he hire a secretary to sign the 500 bookplates? Was he so busy? That's kind of weird. Did ballplayers back in 1910 usually have secretaries?
It's not weird at all. The publisher took care of the whole thing. The "signer" worked for the publisher, not Mathewson. Mathewson never even saw those books.
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  #11  
Old 10-05-2018, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by David Atkatz View Post
It has absolutely nothing to do with Peter Nash's website.
We've known for years that those Mathewson bookplates are secretarial.
And Spence knows it, too:


"1910 book plates adhered to the inside front covers of Won in the Ninth have recently come under scrutiny for their controversial legitimacy. These number(ed) (appr. 500) presentational copies have a type written name added with a large and spurious secretarial black fountain pen manuscript. Observe the low initial stroke of the “M” and the oversized lower case letters and the unusual “t-h” combination that is heavily retraced. Overall, this vintage ghost signed anomaly is far more pointed than his other versions….
I believe Nash when he says that Spence said that some he had authenticated were secretarial. I am most definitely NOT a Matthewson autograph expert. I studied them for a while when I was looking to purchase one, particularly checks. I also looked at as many bookplate examples as I could find, because I found the 'secretarial' discussions and felt like it was a great opportunity to learn more.

In the end, I did not feel comfortable buying a book or a baseball. And curiously, I also did not feel comfortable buying a check. Here's why: go look at the third bookplate example Nash provides. Then go look at a few Matthewson signed checks. What I 'found' was that at least two different people signed the books. Was one of them Matthewson? I don't know, but if all the bookplates were secretarial-signed, there were two secretaries and one of them also signed some of Matthewson's checks.

That's my conclusion. If I'm wrong, sobeit, but my research left me uncomfortable forking over $5k+ for a Matty autograph.
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  #12  
Old 10-05-2018, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SetBuilder View Post
I don't believe those signatures are secretarial. The experts could be wrong.

Mathewson's usual signature length is very small. If you look at all of his signed album pages and other items, the signature remains under 3" in length. Most signed checks have signatures measuring < 2.75". Mathewson had tiny handwriting.

The bookplate pasted on the front board of Won In The 9th measures around 5 inches, with the blank space for the signature nearly the entire 5 inches across.

If Mathewson decided to enlarge his signature for whatever reason, maybe to make it more bold, or to take up all of the 5 inches, his handwriting traits could have changed. Doubling the size of his signature may have caused this change, which manifest as some atypical traits. Could be the result of exaggerating the size of his normal handwriting.

Besides, why would he hire a secretary to sign the 500 bookplates? Was he so busy? That's kind of weird. Did ballplayers back in 1910 usually have secretaries?
You make good points; however, there are major tells in the secretarial signatures that indicate a different signer from MOST of his checks, and increasing the size of his signature would not have affected these. Look at the left of the 'M'. There are many, but that's an obvious one.

I want to add that I would never fault anyone for their analysis of Matty's autograph. It's not an easy one to understand - Ruth, Cobb, Wagner, Williams, Mantle are much easier to figure out. If someone has a secret 'key' to Matty autographs, please send it to me and I will trade whatever information on autographs I might have (it's not much).

Last edited by Runscott; 10-05-2018 at 09:05 PM.
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:57 PM
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Just skimmed the article and saw this comment:

LOL anyone who collects rare “autographs” that are not from an original check is a moron. Like that Mufsud character and his phony “signed” T206s.

Comment by Mastro Monkey — October 4, 2018 @ 10:14 am


Whoa! Anonymous shot across the bow! That's not very nice!!
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2018, 04:38 PM
36GoudeyMan 36GoudeyMan is offline
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Default So, who can you trust?

Sorry if this is egregiously naive, but, if all of these TPAs are sniping and disproving each other, who can you trust?
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  #15  
Old 10-10-2018, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T206Collector View Post
Just skimmed the article and saw this comment:

LOL anyone who collects rare “autographs” that are not from an original check is a moron. Like that Mufsud character and his phony “signed” T206s.

Comment by Mastro Monkey — October 4, 2018 @ 10:14 am


Whoa! Anonymous shot across the bow! That's not very nice!!
Nash knows that Net54 is reading his blog. Someone (probably him) once used my name to leave a comment and it sure wasn't me. He's worthless.
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Last edited by slidekellyslide; 10-10-2018 at 12:01 AM.
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  #16  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:55 AM
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Nash knows that Net54 is reading his blog. Someone (probably him) once used my name to leave a comment and it sure wasn't me. He's worthless.
Whatever you think about him. He has proved that many things that have been sold in the past have been fake items with a high price tag.
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  #17  
Old 10-12-2018, 10:23 AM
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Whatever you think about him. He has proved that many things that have been sold in the past have been fake items with a high price tag.
He’s also done some despicable things and not paid for it. Are we supposed to forget that?
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  #18  
Old 10-12-2018, 10:56 AM
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He’s also done some despicable things and not paid for it. Are we supposed to forget that?
I am almost to the point of not allowing links to the criminal's site. One member was banned because he was too close with Nash. Nash is a criminal and should be behind bars, period.
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Last edited by Leon; 10-12-2018 at 10:56 AM.
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  #19  
Old 10-12-2018, 10:59 AM
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Nash is (himself) most of the people posting on his site, if not all of them, is my guess. He posts all of that crap with different names but it is him posting. I think he likes to think he is something when he is less than nothing. Anyone who reads his site, thinking they are reading the truth, is a fool.


Quote:
Originally Posted by T206Collector View Post
Just skimmed the article and saw this comment:

LOL anyone who collects rare “autographs” that are not from an original check is a moron. Like that Mufsud character and his phony “signed” T206s.

Comment by Mastro Monkey — October 4, 2018 @ 10:14 am


Whoa! Anonymous shot across the bow! That's not very nice!!
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  #20  
Old 10-12-2018, 11:39 AM
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If you have $5k or $10k to waste on an autograph, glad you got burned!

TPG mean nothing.
Do your own research!!!!

- Mark

Last edited by Marckus99; 10-12-2018 at 11:40 AM.
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  #21  
Old 10-12-2018, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by slidekellyslide View Post
He’s also done some despicable things and not paid for it. Are we supposed to forget that?

I agree with you one hundred percent that he is a bad guy.
I am just saying that he has done research that has proven many items that sold for a lot of money have been fakes.
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  #22  
Old 10-15-2018, 10:00 AM
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I agree with you one hundred percent that he is a bad guy.
I am just saying that he has done research that has proven many items that sold for a lot of money have been fakes.
He has probably made more counterfeit and fake items than he has uncovered. I wouldn't doubt he has even planted some of them. Also, my understanding from Lifson is that Nash plead the 5th over 100 times when asked where he obtained things he owned or consigned. Why would anyone plead the 5th, in court, unless they were guilty of something? I have no issue saying where I have gotten each and every item in my collection, past and present, from. It is still hard to fathom how he hasn't gotten caught with the other bad guys doing bad stuff and currently in jail for it. He was an associate of theirs and no doubt should be paying a price for his bad deeds. So, all that said there will be NO MORE links allowed on this forum to that POS person's site. Anyone can still talk about it or him but no more limks. There is too much trash there including him. Hopefully he lands in jail or worse....
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  #23  
Old 10-15-2018, 10:16 AM
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The dude took "loans" from John Rogers. What were they for? Rogers was a cocaine-fueled forger and scam artist and yet you won't find the expose' on HOS. Why is that?
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  #24  
Old 10-15-2018, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by slidekellyslide View Post
The dude took "loans" from John Rogers. What were they for? Rogers was a cocaine-fueled forger and scam artist and yet you won't find the expose' on HOS. Why is that?
And where are the stories on Peter Nash? Thanks, Leon. Peter Nash going after the TPAs is like John Dillinger putting up wanted posters for J. Edgar Hoover!
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  #25  
Old 10-15-2018, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
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...my understanding from Lifson is....
You mean the Lifson who was caught stealing from the New York Public Library?
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  #26  
Old 10-15-2018, 07:09 PM
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And where are the stories on Peter Nash? Thanks, Leon. Peter Nash going after the TPAs is like John Dillinger putting up wanted posters for J. Edgar Hoover!
I am not defending Nash.
But can you tell me one thing that is wrong with that story.
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  #27  
Old 10-15-2018, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Hankphenom View Post
And where are the stories on Peter Nash? Thanks, Leon. Peter Nash going after the TPAs is like John Dillinger putting up wanted posters for J. Edgar Hoover!
I am not defending Nash.
But can you tell me one thing that is wrong with that story.
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  #28  
Old 10-15-2018, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
He has probably made more counterfeit and fake items than he has uncovered. I wouldn't doubt he has even planted some of them. Also, my understanding from Lifson is that Nash plead the 5th over 100 times when asked where he obtained things he owned or consigned. Why would anyone plead the 5th, in court, unless they were guilty of something? I have no issue saying where I have gotten each and every item in my collection, past and present, from. It is still hard to fathom how he hasn't gotten caught with the other bad guys doing bad stuff and currently in jail for it. He was an associate of theirs and no doubt should be paying a price for his bad deeds. So, all that said there will be NO MORE links allowed on this forum to that POS person's site. Anyone can still talk about it or him but no more limks. There is too much trash there including him. Hopefully he lands in jail or worse....
Wow, Leo your a bitter man.
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  #29  
Old 10-15-2018, 07:14 PM
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The dude took "loans" from John Rogers. What were they for? Rogers was a cocaine-fueled forger and scam artist and yet you won't find the expose' on HOS. Why is that?
This is the last thing I am going to say on this matter. You can hate and burn him in hell but.
Dan is there anything that he wrote about Matty that was untrue?
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  #30  
Old 10-15-2018, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by shelly View Post
I am not defending Nash.
But can you tell me one thing that is wrong with that story.
Who says the Matty plates are no good?

Nash calling out fakes reminds me of a certain politician claiming that all the news is fake. Because he's a fake, he'd like people to believe everything's a fake, then no one is pointing the finger at him.

Nash would love nothing more than to take down the TPAs, they're the bain of a fraudster's existence. Do they make mistakes? Duh. Is the hobby better off with them than without them? Duh.

Because of what he's done, no one should have anything to do with this guy. Answer this question: what do you think his motivation is for doing HOS?

Last edited by Hankphenom; 10-15-2018 at 08:12 PM.
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  #31  
Old 10-15-2018, 11:14 PM
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This is the last thing I am going to say on this matter. You can hate and burn him in hell but.
Dan is there anything that he wrote about Matty that was untrue?
Why should I answer this if you've already said this conversation is over?
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  #32  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hankphenom View Post
Who says the Matty plates are no good?

Nash calling out fakes reminds me of a certain politician claiming that all the news is fake. Because he's a fake, he'd like people to believe everything's a fake, then no one is pointing the finger at him.

Nash would love nothing more than to take down the TPAs, they're the bain of a fraudster's existence. Do they make mistakes? Duh. Is the hobby better off with them than without them? Duh.

Because of what he's done, no one should have anything to do with this guy. Answer this question: what do you think his motivation is for doing HOS?
Sorry Hank, but there is definitely some fake news out there. If you automatically believe everything you're told by the media... with all due respect, you're wrong.

Last edited by Huysmans; 10-16-2018 at 08:13 AM.
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  #33  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:39 AM
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Please don't take this thread in a political direction.
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  #34  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:08 AM
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Sorry Hank, but there is definitely some fake news out there. If you automatically believe everything you're told by the media... with all due respect, you're wrong.
No kidding. Where did I say that I believe everything I'm told by the media? You made that up. And you seem to have fallen into the trap of "because not everything the media says is true, then everything they say is false." That's exactly what those whom the media as an entity holds accountable want you to think. As I pointed out, that's the game Nash is trying to play.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:29 AM
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No kidding. Where did I say that I believe everything I'm told by the media? You made that up. And you seem to have fallen into the trap of "because not everything the media says is true, then everything they say is false." That's exactly what those whom the media as an entity holds accountable want you to think. As I pointed out, that's the game Nash is trying to play.
I made up nothing. You're complaining and whining about semantics. I stated that IF you believe everything the media claims... you're wrong.

Last edited by Huysmans; 10-16-2018 at 11:39 AM.
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  #36  
Old 10-16-2018, 12:20 PM
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I made up nothing. You're complaining and whining about semantics. I stated that IF you believe everything the media claims... you're wrong.
Semantics? What are you talking about? These are YOUR words: "If you automatically believe everything you're told by the media...you're wrong." You try to put words in my mouth, I tell you that's not what I think or said, and you call it semantics. I'm not whining, I'm saying you're full of shit.
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Old 10-16-2018, 01:07 PM
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Semantics? What are you talking about? These are YOUR words: "If you automatically believe everything you're told by the media...you're wrong." You try to put words in my mouth, I tell you that's not what I think or said, and you call it semantics. I'm not whining, I'm saying you're full of shit.
Work on your reading comprehension Hank and learn what the word IF means....
It's not rocket science.
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Old 10-16-2018, 04:38 PM
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Work on your reading comprehension Hank and learn what the word IF means....
It's not rocket science.
As I said before, there's nothing in my post to indicate that I believe there is no fake news out there. So exactly who are you referring to with your "If you automatically believe...you're wrong" statement? One of us does seem to have a comprehension problem.
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  #39  
Old 10-16-2018, 07:28 PM
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I believe that Peter Nash and Jose Canseco are the same person.
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  #40  
Old 10-16-2018, 07:55 PM
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Hank, go get a glass of water and take one of the pills on your nightstand. You'll feel calmer tomorrow and make more sense. Not a high bar, but it's something.
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  #41  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:56 AM
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Hank, go get a glass of water and take one of the pills on your nightstand. You'll feel calmer tomorrow and make more sense. Not a high bar, but it's something.
Do gratuitous insults make you feel smarter, Scott?
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  #42  
Old 10-17-2018, 12:54 PM
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Why should I answer this if you've already said this conversation is over?
Wow, great way to not answer a simple question
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  #43  
Old 10-17-2018, 01:27 PM
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Bob Davies
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Originally Posted by Huysmans View Post
Work on your reading comprehension Hank and learn what the word IF means....
I'm still trying to figure out what the word "is" really means...
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Old 10-17-2018, 06:04 PM
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Dan Bretta
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Originally Posted by shelly View Post
Wow, great way to not answer a simple question
LOL, you said this is my last post in this thread. I guess you were wrong.
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