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  #21  
Old 02-20-2017, 07:54 PM
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Ben North
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal View Post
Pujols was a monster. Just doesn't have the appeal Trout does .... in my opinion of course
I completely agree with this at this time. The problem is as soon as Trout has a bad year or the next big thing comes up Trout will be forgotten just as fast as Pujols was. Probably even faster since Pujols had a much better start to his career.
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  #22  
Old 02-20-2017, 09:12 PM
nat nat is offline
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Where do you get this thing about Pujols having a better start to his career? Once you adjust for the context in which they were playing (i.e., Pujols got started during silly ball), and the parks in which they play, they have basically identical OPSs. (Trout leads by one point.) Trout's OPS is also weighted more heavily towards on-base percentage than is Pujols', and on-base percentage is more valuable than is slugging percentage. So as batters, Trout has a narrow lead over Pujols. But once you account for the fact that Trout is a good base runner and a center fielder, whereas Pujols was a leftfielder/first baseman (although admittedly a good one), Trout pulls into a comfortable lead.

We really should feel lucky that we get to watch Trout play. Through age 24 he is the greatest player of all time. Ruth's huge seasons came after age 24, so no guarantee that he's going to keep that title (he probably won't), but he is something special.

That said, keep the Mantles and the Aarons. Or sell them to me cheaply.


P.S. Bonus comparison: Trout vs. Mantle. Trout has a slight lead as a hitter through age 24 (a little bit larger than his lead over Pujols, but still not very big). Both were center fielders. As a fielder early in his career, Mantle was pretty much dead average for a center fielder. Trout averages out about the same (although with considerable year-to-year variation). Trout is the better base runner.
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  #23  
Old 02-20-2017, 09:18 PM
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For the record, I am not selling Mantle and Aaron's to buy Mike Trout cards

I don't think it would be that crazy however. Mike Trout, as nat pointed out, is off to a legendary start, and I'd love to own a nice mid-level Trout card. Or cards.

Searching for them, as well as learning some tidbits regarding modern collecting, has been a pleasant diversion to the same ole cards on eBay.

Good thread
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  #24  
Old 02-20-2017, 09:26 PM
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IMO, selling your Mantles, Aaron's etc is a bad decision. Ok, so maybe trout will be a hofer someday....sure Jeter is a lock with the potential of a unanimous vote, but you're older items should be valuable in a more "historical" sense. A lot of my vintage is solely based on who it is and what I know of that player and his major contributions to the game


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  #25  
Old 02-20-2017, 09:26 PM
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Not to take anything away from Trout who I like a lot, but he hasn't won a HR or batting title, has led the league only once in RBI and OPS, strikes out a lot, is hitting .306 lifetime so far, I am just not seeing him as the second coming yet?
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  #26  
Old 02-20-2017, 09:48 PM
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OK to be as fair as possible I will compare the first 5 years for Albert Pujols to 6 for Trout so the Plate Appearances and ABs are close with Trout having 130 more PA and 43 more AB.

Pujols PA 3428 in first 5 years
Trout PA 3558 in first 6 years

Pujols AB 2954
Trout AB 2997

Pujols BA 332
Trout BA 306

Pujols Runs 629
Trout Runs 600

Pujols Hits 982
Trout Hits 917

Pujols 2B 227
Trout 2B 175

Pujols 3B 11
Trout 3B 37

Pujols HR 201
Trout HR 168

Pujols RBI 621
Trout RBI 497

Pujols SB 29
Trout SB 143

Pujols BB 401
Trout BB 477

Pujols TB 1834
Trout TB 1670

So even with 130 more plate appearances and 43 more at bats he is behind in every offensive category except SB, BB and triples.. Yes i know these are old school stats but I have no faith is the new theoretical/hypothetical stats when they compare players of different positions and different years.
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  #27  
Old 02-21-2017, 07:32 AM
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I don't really follow modern cards much...but I follow the hobby. The only way a trout card is a good investment is as a short term investment. If trout has a great start...or a great season...yes...I believe his "rarer" cards could potentially be a good "short term" investment assuming you sell!

Long term investment potential is very poor...as has been said. Manufactured scarcity is crap...along with the overproduction of mint condition cards being produced these days. In the future there will be way more high grade cards than low/collector grade.

And while I like jeter...this also would be a bad investment.

If u want to invest...cobb, ruth are the way to go!!!
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  #28  
Old 02-21-2017, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
OK to be as fair as possible I will compare the first 5 years for Albert Pujols to 6 for Trout so the Plate Appearances and ABs are close with Trout having 130 more PA and 43 more AB.

Pujols PA 3428 in first 5 years
Trout PA 3558 in first 6 years

Pujols AB 2954
Trout AB 2997

Pujols BA 332
Trout BA 306

Pujols Runs 629
Trout Runs 600

Pujols Hits 982
Trout Hits 917

Pujols 2B 227
Trout 2B 175

Pujols 3B 11
Trout 3B 37

Pujols HR 201
Trout HR 168

Pujols RBI 621
Trout RBI 497

Pujols SB 29
Trout SB 143

Pujols BB 401
Trout BB 477

Pujols TB 1834
Trout TB 1670

So even with 130 more plate appearances and 43 more at bats he is behind in every offensive category except SB, BB and triples.. Yes i know these are old school stats but I have no faith is the new theoretical/hypothetical stats when they compare players of different positions and different years.
That seems like you have a point looking at it like that, but your stats don't account to league nor does it account for years of play.

If you throw out Trout's 2011 (age 19) stats since he only played 40 games and just look at 2012-2016 compared to Pujols 2001-2005 stats you still have to remember that Trout is one year younger than Pujols.

On top of that Trout has a Black Ink (a stat that measures League Leading stats) of 25. Pujols' first 5 year Black Ink is only 18. On the other hand if you look at their Gray Inks (a stat that measures top 10 in league stats) Trout trails Pujols 92 to 110. So it would be hard for me to say Trout is better, but he did dominate more than Pujols whereas Pujols was consistently in the top 10 of the game during his 5 years.

For instance Pujols never led the league in RBI or SLG, but was always in the top 10. Trout has led the league in RBI and SLG once, but was only in the top 10 for RBI twice and SLG all 5 years.
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  #29  
Old 02-21-2017, 11:01 AM
nat nat is offline
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You have to remember that it was easier to put up those numbers when Pujols was playing. Just like you can't directly compare a guy who played in 1933 with one who played in 1908, you can't directly compare a guy playing in 2002 with one playing in 2016. The context of the game has changed.

Those stats also ignore fielding, and CF is a lot more demanding than 1B is, even though Pujols was a very good first baseman.
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  #30  
Old 02-21-2017, 11:02 AM
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Ryan Braun first 6 years

AB-3477

BA-313

Runs-614

Hits-1089

2B-223

3B-29

HR- 202

RBI-643

SB-126

BB-305
He looks like the winner ! Might as well buy all his chrome autos .
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