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  #11  
Old 03-13-2017, 07:56 PM
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JollyElm JollyElm is offline
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A bit off topic, but do you know what drives me absolutely bananas at card shows??? Reality.

When I'm looking through a dealer's box full of cards from, say, 1970, and I see a common I need to upgrade and he has about 15 of them. Then in his 'star' box, he has 10 or more Steve Carltons and other HOF'ers. Just so many multiples of cards. And when you go to the next dealer, they too have countless doubles of cards. And this is just in one tiny corner of a card show in a small California town. It makes me realize how many untold thousands/millions of the same card are out there across the country. Then take a look at one of those '3 cards for a dollar' box a lot of dealers have and all the various types of cards found in it. Hundreds and hundreds of 'forgotten' cards that are basically worthless. How many of those cards exist? Millions and millions and millions.

Even rookie cards like Nolan Ryan, Reggie Jackson, etc. How many of those suckers were (mass) produced? There will never be any sort of shortage.

I don't know what the point of this post is, except to say that card shows are great, but they make it obvious how rare nothing truly is in the Topps era of baseball cards (I know, I know, some people will disagree with that, but it's a general point). Well, except for some variations. That's why I love collecting them.

Hope I didn't bum anybody out…because I definitely bummed myself out.
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  #12  
Old 03-13-2017, 08:01 PM
savedfrommyspokes savedfrommyspokes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
. The average guy on eBay has no overhead and does not pay taxes(the thing that pays for all the stuff we take for granted).
As a seller on ebay, once all of the fees, expenses, paypal costs, etc are added up, the total accounts for almost 28% of my income. When I set up at shows, my expenses were about an equal percent of my income.

Breaking down my income by percent, COG=42%, Expenses=28% and profit =30%.

You may ask about why that 28% is so high when ebay FVF=10% and paypal is FVF is 3%. Here are several things to consider....with the total fees I paid to paypal, over a third of the total amount paid to paypal are the 30 cent transaction fees. The 10% in FVFs paid to ebay does not include the cost of the monthly store fee. Part of my expenses are my s/h costs....10% of my total income goes to cover s/h costs. If you back out my s/h income/expenses, my ebay/pp fees are 18% of my income.

As far as taxes, due to the number of transactions I complete , I receive a 1099K from paypal, so after my accountant figures in all of my deductions, I have an effective tax rate of 17-18% of my profit.

When I sold at shows, all of my income was cash....no taxes paid.

After spending some time on a "tri state" show circuit in my area, I much prefer selling online from home, but my expenses are far greater selling from home.


While most sellers do not sell enough to receive a 1099k, my guess is most ebay sellers have a similar percent breakdown of total income(before taxes) on their expense portion.

Last edited by savedfrommyspokes; 03-13-2017 at 08:09 PM.
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  #13  
Old 03-14-2017, 09:29 AM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
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Default Interesting conversation

SO many opinions - that's what makes the world go 'round.....so I'll chime in with my 2 cents. I was a part time dealer for about 10 years, setting up at shows large and small. I have been an avid collector for the better part of 30. For me pricing has been more a function of supply and demand as well as my knowledge of a card(s) that I have for sale. For example if I am selling a card that 10 other guys in the room/on ebay are likely to have in comparable condition - I choose to compete on price to make the sale. It is as if more of a commodity and the sale of it is most likely to be influenced by price. If on the other hand I am selling something I know to be rare or possibly unique - I know I have a lot of room to price it high and be firm. I have sold items that I am most certain I will never own again in my life - I will wait for the collector who understands and is willing to pay. As a buyer/collector I do the opposite - Negotiate hard on commoditized cards and willing to pay high for the rare ones.
I think many forget the "book" is a "guide" - not a current buy/ask. I know my inventory or what I am looking for well (most of the time). I encourage you to do the same.
Regarding OP - definitely a bit frustrating if a dealer is using the "book" in some cases and not in others.
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  #14  
Old 03-14-2017, 10:19 AM
SMPEP SMPEP is offline
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I'm with Adam. As someone who is a weekend warrior that has only ever set up at his shows, most of my stuff (the commoditized stuff - especially lower grade conditioned of commoditized cards) are priced to move. That's probably 80% of my stuff that I bring.

But I do have another 20% on display that is NOT priced that way. Like Adam they are cards designed to get eyeballs and I'm not really trying to sell them. If you give me a number I can't refuse, okay. But I have no INTENTION of selling them. Those are pieces in my collection that I really prefer to keep.

So why do I bring pieces like this? One, it gets people to look, but more importantly, if I have obscure stuff I'm trying to collect, people will see them and say - "golly, I have one like that." (You'd be amazed how many times the word "Golly" is used at Adam's shows.) And that's when I get to turn the tables and say - "Are you selling?"

When I set up, the best day isn't the day I sold the most. The best day is when I bought something I can't find any other place. I'm still waiting for that walk in Reiser grey back though!

Cheers,
Patrick
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  #15  
Old 03-14-2017, 11:30 AM
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Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes View Post
When I sold at shows, all of my income was cash....no taxes paid.
A 1099 is just a report of how much you received, not how much you profited. Tax fraud is not a business strategy, it is a crime, and a dumb one at that. If you just don't pay taxes at all you will end up in the hobby wing at Leavenworth. Hope Mark Allen is a good cellie...Maybe he'll share his soap on a rope.

Taxes should not be an issue. If you are paying taxes on a profit, that is the same as in any other trade. The question is how do you minimize your tax exposure. There are ways to do it within the confines of a card business but they require planning and organization; I won't discuss the nuts and bolts so as not to be seen as providing legal or accounting advice. But just saying "F*** it" and not paying anything, that is amateurish.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 03-14-2017 at 11:34 AM.
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  #16  
Old 03-14-2017, 01:00 PM
savedfrommyspokes savedfrommyspokes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
A 1099 is just a report of how much you received, not how much you profited. Tax fraud is not a business strategy, it is a crime, and a dumb one at that. If you just don't pay taxes at all you will end up in the hobby wing at Leavenworth. Hope Mark Allen is a good cellie...Maybe he'll share his soap on a rope.

Taxes should not be an issue. If you are paying taxes on a profit, that is the same as in any other trade. The question is how do you minimize your tax exposure. There are ways to do it within the confines of a card business but they require planning and organization; I won't discuss the nuts and bolts so as not to be seen as providing legal or accounting advice. But just saying "F*** it" and not paying anything, that is amateurish.
I am quite aware of the purpose of a 1099, not sure why you need to explain the purpose of a 1099 as I NEVER made any mention of a 1099 being used to report profits????


In regards to shows, I set up at about 5 shows a year over a 3-4 year period in order to sell off duplicates and had less than $1k in INCOME at each show. When I figured in my EXPENSES and COG, I had very little PROFIT (which is what I would pay my taxes on). I am quite sure if I needed to pay taxes on that absolute MINISCULE amount that I did make profit wise at the few shows I set up at, my accountant likely could have found some additional deduction to offset it. In some cases, I spent my INCOME from the show on new inventory at the show before leaving.

This would be like my wife reporting the $150 (cash) she "made" at our most recent garage sale as taxable income. Not really worth it.


As mentioned in my above post, to ensure my taxes are handled correctly is why I currently employ an accountant to handle my taxes...this allows me to minimize my tax exposure with my online selling and to ensure I am not ending up with Mark Allen.

My guess is almost EVERY member of this board (who lives in an applicable state) is guilty of not declaring and paying their state's usage tax on their out of state online purchases. Since I am set up as a sole proprietorship, I avoid paying these usage taxes in my state on any of the purchases I make in order to resell through my "business". There is a lot more exposure in regards to use taxes not being paid than weekend warriors who after expenses and COG make $50 profit at a card show.

Perhaps it is common at the shows you run for all of the sellers to report every dime of their income....in my area, in speaking with the dealers set up at the shows I did, I met just one dealer who did report his income. For this one dealer, card selling is his profession while the rest of these dealers were weekend warriors unloading their duplicates for very little if any PROFIT.
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  #17  
Old 03-14-2017, 01:14 PM
bbcard1 bbcard1 is offline
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The two worst kind of dealers to negotiate with are those who've had a really good day and those who've had a really bad day.
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  #18  
Old 03-14-2017, 02:46 PM
hangman62 hangman62 is offline
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Default cards/ dealers

That comment about - the incredible amount of cards actually available for sale at a show,,it is quite staggering... any decent size show... dealers with pretty much any and every card from late 50s thru 70s..loaded in their cases
...mantle,mays,aaron..yes...... the book says $75, 100, 200....but not hard to find by any stretch of the imagination ...and if you search ebay... its even more of a wake up call.... 55B Mantle.... you see 25 of them in 10 seconds of scrolling .

I get a kick out of the dealer who shingles out two dozen 1962 T Aarons... have at it guys.. who needs one or six !

nothing from this " 25 yr period " is really not hard to find .

Ive often passed up a card I needed simply because I said.. " hell if this guy has 10 of them sitting here..I can find it elsewhere and cheaper
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  #19  
Old 03-14-2017, 02:57 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbcard1 View Post
The two worst kind of dealers to negotiate with are those who've had a really good day and those who've had a really bad day.
Maybe that's why I never did well as a dealer. Set up a couple times, and both were incredibly "bad" days. Didn't cover the cost of the table either time, second time total sales = ten cents But I'd still have negotiated fairly.

Steve B
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