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Old 03-20-2017, 09:16 AM
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Default 1933 Goudey Ruth- Questionable Authenticity? Not really...

This is the issue with the ?AUT grading...

Not sure who couldn't tell them it was a reprint/fake but I would be happy to.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1933-GOUDEY-...oAAOSw4A5Yzwop

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Old 03-20-2017, 09:25 AM
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I've always assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the reason they say questionable authenticity rather than "bloody awful fake" was for legal reasons. If they did make a mistake and called one a fake that was real, they would be open to a lawsuit. This way they can say - we never said it was a fake. We just said we couldn't tell, so it's on you for selling it too cheaply and not figuring out if it is real.

Granted, that is a weak way to conduct business. (Hint: you're supposed to stand behind your work and take the consequences.) But in their shoes it is safer.

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Ps - If PSA starts assigning a BAF ("Bloody Awful fake") grade, I want royalties. Or at least a few free gradings. ;-)

Last edited by SMPEP; 03-20-2017 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:46 AM
PhillipAbbott79 PhillipAbbott79 is offline
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There are dozens of ways they could render a decision without using a derivative of "authentic".

Here are a few:

No Decision
Undetermined
N4
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79 View Post
There are dozens of ways they could render a decision without using a derivative of "authentic".

Here are a few:

No Decision
Undetermined
N4
Actually, the flip should say COU for Counterfeit....and leave it at that. It is what it is. On another situation, I sent in the W575-1s I picked up recently, to SGC. They said they have to put "Hand Cut" on the flips even though they admit they aren't hand cut. Makes sense to me.... not.
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Last edited by Leon; 03-20-2017 at 09:52 AM. Reason: correction
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:01 AM
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On a facebook group (which does have some vintage users but tend towards modern) there was card recently pictured with the same auth? determination from PSA. The poster was asking what it meant. Most people were correct in saying it was a fake, but a few others tried arguing that it wasn't certain. They insisted that the question mark meant that PSA didn't know if it was authentic and that PSA just couldn't determine authenticity.

It is because of those few that people still sell these items this way.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:11 AM
Paul S Paul S is offline
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Last year, maybe the year before, someone won one of my auctions for two Mantles: Post Cereal and the Life magazine insert. The condition was low end so I'm not sure why he'd pay to have them graded (PSA) but that's his business, not mine. Anyway, they came back "? AUTHTCT". He didn't want a refund, but was sincerely disappointed and bummed out, therefore I am too. Now, I know both cards have been counterfeited in the past, except I had them since the Sixties before the shenanigans started. If they can't render an opinion, shouldn't they be refunding fees, if any, or at least shipping?
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:36 AM
PhillipAbbott79 PhillipAbbott79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Actually, the flip should say COU for Counterfeit....and leave it at that. It is what it is. On another situation, I sent in the W575-1s I picked up recently, to SGC. They said they have to put "Hand Cut" on the flips even though they admit they aren't hand cut. Makes sense to me.... not.
That would be correct, but I was showing how questionably authentic still has some ways that can be addressed IF their concern is with the legality of it.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:06 PM
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I understand and appreciate the desire for certainty, but that is not what PSA is paid to do. The QA response is the equivalent of "not guilty"; it isn't an affirmative assertion of "innocent", it is a representation that the evidence didn't prove guilt. The TPG isn't asked to determine if an item is "counterfeit", it is asked to determine if an item is authentic and if so, what condition it is in. The QA statement means that the TPG couldn't state it was authentic, not that the item is counterfeit. It is certainly motivated by legal considerations; if you want the TPGs to issue a damning "counterfeit" designation on items, i.e., to take an affirmative position and render a conclusive opinion that will cost the owners real money, you need to be prepared to pay more for grading services to cover the risks of errors and the damages that may be awarded to an injured party. We aren't going to get that for $7.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 03-20-2017 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:20 PM
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Adam is correct, but it is also true that the term they use is needlessly strange and ambiguous. They could use the label of "not graded or holdered" or something like that.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:39 PM
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Questionable Authenticity fits the bill just fine. A lot of devious people try to play havoc with the wording though just to pass their fakes off as real.
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