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Old 06-19-2012, 02:22 PM
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JimStinson JimStinson is offline
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Default Have a Look at this Dandy.Muhammad Ali Signing.Or is it?

Recently I bought a collection of mostly boxing tickets, VIP passes, posters etc. There were a few in-person autographs I bought but most of the signed stuff was bad so I left it in his garage. One of the things that he had was a "Angelo Marino" litho purportedly signed by Ali and had the photo to prove Ali signed it, I have been told by reliable sources that Ali never signed those. I did get a copy of the picture of Ali supposedly signing one of the above mentioned lithos and after looking at it I'm thinking that maybe the guy doing the signing is not even Ali , which is pretty darn clever if its true. Or maybe I'm just being overly cynical, any opinions ?
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:31 PM
drc drc is offline
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I don't know, but my guess would be it's him. Not the most helpful shot.
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:38 PM
travrosty travrosty is offline
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or is it reggie jackson? who can tell from the photo?

thats a horrible photo and to use it as proof of anything is pushing it. you cant tell the guy in the photo is anything more than a passing likeness to ali from that bad angle and bad lighting.

it may be ali but i wouldnt put it past anyone to use someone that kind of resembles someone else, take a picture of him "signing" which all i see is a pen next to the lithograph, i don't see a signature, and there you go. i dont see it as cynical, because if it is not ali in that photo, he could get away with it and we have seen people using anything and everything at their disposal to get away with stuff.

if that's the only picture the guy has, there is something wrong, you would think he would take other pictures of ali at that same signing wearing those same clothes.

that's the strangest photo i have ever seen, the photo looks like a painting.

Last edited by travrosty; 06-19-2012 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:45 PM
drc drc is offline
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Oh wait. I though you were referring to the guy standing at the right
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:49 PM
travrosty travrosty is offline
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i am convinced that is some sort of a copy of a painting.


the light off of the guys pants cast a shadow going back, but ali's head shows a shadow going forward. why isnt ali's face in the light if there is light on that side as evidenced by the brightness of the guys pants on the right, throwing a shadow back the other way? There is something screwy about that photo.

Last edited by travrosty; 06-19-2012 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:11 PM
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Or it can be a "photo-shop" cut and paste image because you are right ! the shadowing effect down his chest does not appear correct, if a flash camera was used there should be no shadow
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:21 PM
drc drc is offline
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I'm near certain it was photo shopped. The colors and contrast appear cartoonish/painterly, as happen when you digitally enhance a photo too much. Though color and contrast enhancement isn't proof there were other types of alterations.

I also agree the shadows appear to go in suspiciously conflicting directions. Though that's tempered by that we don't know what was the lighting situation.

I would not consider this photo proof. Too many issues with the image for it to be considered reliable in and of itself.

Last edited by drc; 06-19-2012 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:01 PM
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It smelled funny from the begining, I would not have touched it with a 10 foot pole anyway simply because it had the name "Marino" on the litho. But just another heads up that even purported PHOTOS are not exactly proof. I remember going to Puerto Rico to do a private signing with Boxer Wilfredo Gomez, and a 250 pound guy showed up that looked nothing like him. (At least the Gomez I remember) I was going to ask him for ID (smile) until I asked the bell man and a hotel employee if they knew who he was and of course they did
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:02 PM
mr2686 mr2686 is offline
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Jim, being overly cynical is what makes you great at what you do. Even if you had video proof that a numbered item was signed in dna proven blood, there are still going to be a majority of people that would not touch anything with the name Marino attached. My opinion of the photo is that it looks wrong, whether it is with photo shop, a picture of a painting, or whatever, it's just not looking right.
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:10 PM
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Two problems I have with the photo is why is the head half cropped out when the photo is supposed to prove the signer's identity(!?!?!) and why is it enhanced so much. I perfectly understand that people artistically enhance and crop an art photo for their website or a self portrait for facebook, but that's not something you do on a snapshot used as evidence. The total opposite of the purpose of such an in-person signing snapshot is to make the image look to customers as if it's been manipulated.

Last edited by drc; 06-19-2012 at 04:21 PM. Reason: th
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