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  #1  
Old 07-08-2018, 07:43 PM
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Default Beware...T206 Brown Old Mill PSA 2.5 Thornton on Ebay

not a Brown Old Mill...

Last edited by CMIZ5290; 07-08-2018 at 08:15 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-08-2018, 07:54 PM
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Got a link
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  #3  
Old 07-09-2018, 07:05 AM
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https://m.ebay.com/itm/T206-Old-Mill...0AAOSwtEVbQEZq
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  #4  
Old 07-09-2018, 07:28 AM
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Not that it's a surprise but the seller knows it's a mistake by PSA
he bought the card for $150.

http://www.flippertools.com/tools/eb...QAAOSwpuBZwn8q
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  #5  
Old 07-09-2018, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMIZ5290 View Post
not a Brown Old Mill...
I never do good with eyesight on brown vs black but it looks brown, no?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Old-Mi...EZq&rmvSB=true
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  #6  
Old 07-09-2018, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I never do good with eyesight on brown vs black but it looks brown, no?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Old-Mi...EZq&rmvSB=true
It's not Leon, it does have a brownish look compared to some of the regular
black Old Mills we see but it's not even close when you put it next
to a true Brown Old Mill.

Thornton Old Mill.jpg
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  #7  
Old 07-09-2018, 07:42 AM
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Default The original ad...

I love the original add back when the card was sold for $150

https://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Old-Mi...rue&rmvSB=true

"This card has been professionally authenticated and graded by PSA (Professional Sports Authenticator), a division of Collector’s Universe, and the #1 grading company in the sports card industry. You can depend on the fact that the card is original and authentic, and that the quality is assured....


We are selling off stuff that has been accumulated and stored up to 40 years in my Grandaddy’s old house next door.
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  #8  
Old 07-09-2018, 08:06 AM
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I think I've posted this before, but the rule is that the brown ones have a noticeably red tint to them, so if there's a question just ask "Does this 'brown' look kinda red?" And if the answer's "No" you're just looking at a faded black one.
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  #9  
Old 07-09-2018, 08:21 AM
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Months ago, this card sat on eBay for weeks, listed for sale as a brown old mill (I think he was asking $15k). I am one of likely a dozen people who emailed him to tell him itís not a brown old mill. He knows. And it most certainly is not a brown old mill.

PSA screwed the pooch big time on this one, and the seller is a piece of shit fishing for a dummy to screw over.

Ryan Hotchkiss
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  #10  
Old 07-11-2018, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
Months ago, this card sat on eBay for weeks, listed for sale as a brown old mill (I think he was asking $15k). I am one of likely a dozen people who emailed him to tell him it’s not a brown old mill. He knows. And it most certainly is not a brown old mill.

PSA screwed the pooch big time on this one, and the seller is a piece of shit fishing for a dummy to screw over.

Ryan Hotchkiss
Please tell us how you really feel, Ryan. Don't hold back just because it's us....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Old-Mi...EZq&rmvSB=true

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Last edited by Leon; 07-11-2018 at 01:46 PM.
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  #11  
Old 07-11-2018, 05:32 PM
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At least I put my full name!!!! A was never really any good at sugar-coating (something to work on).
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  #12  
Old 07-13-2018, 01:25 PM
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I have been told I need to work on that too.

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At least I put my full name!!!! A was never really any good at sugar-coating (something to work on).
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  #13  
Old 07-14-2018, 11:50 AM
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I don't know anything about the brown lettering version. Does this only appear on the Old Mill backs? Are there only a few players which have this coloring? How rare are these cards?
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  #14  
Old 07-14-2018, 12:10 PM
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Aren't real brown Old Mills considered scraps and not actually inserted with the tobacco for distribution?
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  #15  
Old 07-14-2018, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buythatcard View Post
I don't know anything about the brown lettering version. Does this only appear on the Old Mill backs? Are there only a few players which have this coloring? How rare are these cards?
The brown lettering appears on Old Mill Southern League cards only. There are less than 20 players who feature this back. They are the most rare, and second most valuable back in the T206 set. They sell in the $15,000 range.

There are also Brown lettered Lenox cards, which are almost as rare and valuable, but that's a story for another thread.

Last edited by Sean; 07-14-2018 at 12:40 PM.
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  #16  
Old 07-14-2018, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe View Post
Aren't real brown Old Mills considered scraps and not actually inserted with the tobacco for distribution?
Yes, they are all scraps. Apparently they were printed in error and discarded, but were taken home by a printer. They were cut by hand from that sheet, and eventually made their way into circulation.
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  #17  
Old 07-14-2018, 12:40 PM
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PSA made a mistake???? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!
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  #18  
Old 07-14-2018, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
The brown lettering appears on Old Mill Southern League cards only. There are less than 20 players who feature this back. They are the most rare, and second most valuable back in the T206 set. They sell in the $15,000 range.

There are also Brown lettered Lenox cards, which are almost as rare and valuable, but that's a story for another thread.
Sean, if you got a Brown OM for $15k, I am a buyer all day long!! Last few I know of went for $18k-$20k+ and the $18k was private and a fairly motivated seller.
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  #19  
Old 07-14-2018, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
Sean, if you got a Brown OM for $15k, I am a buyer all day long!! Last few I know of went for $18k-$20k+ and the $18k was private and a fairly motivated seller.
Sorry, I don't have, and probably will never get a Brown Old Mill.
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  #20  
Old 07-14-2018, 02:35 PM
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Listed here are the 34 - Southern Leaguer's that are possible with Brown OLD MILL backs.






To date, 12 of these 34 subjects have been confirmed with Brown OLD MILL backs..........

Bay
Bernhard....................Brown OLD MILL
Breitenstein
Carey
Coles
Cranston
Ellam
Foster........................Brown OLD MILL
Fritz
Greminger..................Brown OLD MILL
Guiheen
Helm.........................Brown OLD MILL
Hickman
Hooker......................Brown OLD MILL
Howard
Jordan
Kiernan......................Brown OLD MILL
Lafitte
Lipe
Manion
McCauley
Molesworth
Mullaney....................Brown OLD MILL
Otey
Paige.........................Brown OLD MILL
Perdue
Persons
Reagan......................Brown OLD MILL
Revelle......................Brown OLD MILL
Ryan
Shaughnessy
Smith (Atlanta)...........Brown OLD MILL
Thornton....................Brown OLD MILL
Violat


These 14 Southern Leaguer's will NOT be found with Brown OLD MILL backs.

Bastian
Hart (Little Rock)
Hart (Montgomery)
King
Lentz
Miller
Orth
Rockenfeld
Seitz
Smith (Shreveport)
Stark
Thebo
Westlake
White (Houston


TED Z

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  #21  
Old 07-14-2018, 04:35 PM
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If I ever came across one, I would never have known. Can't see difference between certain color shades. Traffic lights can be a challenge some times.
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  #22  
Old 07-14-2018, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buythatcard View Post
If I ever came across one, I would never have known. Can't see difference between certain color shades. Traffic lights can be a challenge some times.
So if I offered to sell you one, you wouldn't know if it was legit?
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  #23  
Old 07-16-2018, 05:11 PM
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Even without Pat's comparison, the one on ebay does not look remotely brown to me.
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  #24  
Old 07-17-2018, 06:45 PM
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I bought one from him he listed that was brown and it's not it's just kind of faded. I also noticed some of his cards from GAI definitely look trimmed. The Christy Mathewson he has right now was Gai graded 8 he wanted 15 grand for it now I see it's crossed over to SGC authentic and he still wants 5k. He bought a beautiful red portrait t206 Cobb from me graded authentic by SGC and cracked it open and sent it back to SGC and somehow it came back and 4. 5. I was sick for a month. I posted the two pictures about a month ago on this forum where mine was graded authentic and then converted over to a 4. 5 I also sold him a green cobb portrait graded psa 2 which he enhance the color on Photoshop to make the green look so much better than it actually was and I feel sorry for the guy that bought it because I know he had to be disappointed. I dealt with him one time and it will be my last he's quite a Sly one

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Last edited by Solemany2k; 07-17-2018 at 06:49 PM.
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  #25  
Old 07-18-2018, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solemany2k View Post
I bought one from him he listed that was brown and it's not it's just kind of faded. I also noticed some of his cards from GAI definitely look trimmed. The Christy Mathewson he has right now was Gai graded 8 he wanted 15 grand for it now I see it's crossed over to SGC authentic and he still wants 5k. He bought a beautiful red portrait t206 Cobb from me graded authentic by SGC and cracked it open and sent it back to SGC and somehow it came back and 4. 5. I was sick for a month. I posted the two pictures about a month ago on this forum where mine was graded authentic and then converted over to a 4. 5 I also sold him a green cobb portrait graded psa 2 which he enhance the color on Photoshop to make the green look so much better than it actually was and I feel sorry for the guy that bought it because I know he had to be disappointed. I dealt with him one time and it will be my last he's quite a Sly one

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For future reference, if an Old Mill comes with a numeric grade, it's not a Brown. OM Browns are hand cut and are graded Authentic.
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  #26  
Old 07-18-2018, 06:32 AM
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Wow didn't have a clue


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  #27  
Old 07-18-2018, 11:52 AM
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I think PSA has a rogue grader, who is either color blind or new at the game. I submitted a pair of T206 SL'ers to PSA with the intention of consigning them to Al at LTGA. When they both came back labeled as Brown, I was puzzled, remembering that some wise soul on this forum stated that any legit brown would come back as A, since the bona fides were hand cut. I showed them to Al, who agreed they were incorrectly graded and called PSA to bring it to their attention. They re-graded the cards properly and they duly appeared in Al's last auction where they didn't fetch $15,000+, I am sad to say.
Two observations: 1. Shouldn't such high value card(s) pass by some top grader, or even Joe O., to determine correctness before releasing them? How
does their quality control system work, if at all?
2. I believe it is a sign on Al's integrity to confront PSA about the cards before accepting them as a consignment. It saved a lot of embarrassment, particularly PSA's.
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  #28  
Old 07-18-2018, 05:58 PM
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I emailed the seller to tell him I didn't think the card was a brown Hindu and he responded that he had received a lot of emails about it. The seller thanked me and said he was just going to auction the card and see what it sells for. But he didn't say whether he would list it as a brown back or even raise the question in the listing...
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  #29  
Old 07-18-2018, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
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But he didn't say whether he would list it as a brown back or even raise the question in the listing...
Because of course he won't.
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  #30  
Old 07-18-2018, 07:14 PM
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PSA knows about it, though I am not sure what they can or can't do vis a vis ebay.
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  #31  
Old 07-18-2018, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solemany2k View Post
I bought one from him he listed that was brown and it's not it's just kind of faded. I also noticed some of his cards from GAI definitely look trimmed. The Christy Mathewson he has right now was Gai graded 8 he wanted 15 grand for it now I see it's crossed over to SGC authentic and he still wants 5k. He bought a beautiful red portrait t206 Cobb from me graded authentic by SGC and cracked it open and sent it back to SGC and somehow it came back and 4. 5. I was sick for a month. I posted the two pictures about a month ago on this forum where mine was graded authentic and then converted over to a 4. 5 I also sold him a green cobb portrait graded psa 2 which he enhance the color on Photoshop to make the green look so much better than it actually was and I feel sorry for the guy that bought it because I know he had to be disappointed. I dealt with him one time and it will be my last he's quite a Sly one

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Hey guy,

Bastian is one of 14 - Southern Leaguer's that is an impossible card with a brown OLD MILL back. Check-out this thread.... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=125226&page=2


TED Z

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  #32  
Old 07-23-2018, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hey guy,

Bastian is one of 14 - Southern Leaguer's that is an impossible card with a brown OLD MILL back. Check-out this thread.... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=125226&page=2


TED Z

T206 Reference
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Now he relists the item...

Last edited by CMIZ5290; 07-23-2018 at 06:25 PM.
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  #33  
Old 07-23-2018, 07:09 PM
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His comments at the bottom of the listing are humorous considering
he paid $150 for the card on June 5th.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Old-Mi...LH_TitleDesc=0

img429.jpg

Last edited by Pat R; 07-23-2018 at 07:19 PM.
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  #34  
Old 07-23-2018, 11:55 PM
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Did this jerk think that PSA would reimburse him for a Brown Old Mill?

Last edited by Sean; 07-23-2018 at 11:55 PM.
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  #35  
Old 07-24-2018, 11:25 PM
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Old-Mi...item2860f64100

So that was a change up. That description is probably the funniest thing I've ever read
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