NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:37 PM
AGuinness AGuinness is offline
Garth Guibord
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 294
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
Baseball was the only major sport. Now there are 4 major sports.
I think it's safe to say that at least boxing was in the same class as baseball back then. And at least from anecdotal evidence, a career in baseball was rarely encouraged by parents at the time. In today's world, kids that show an early aptitude for any sport can get put in special leagues, etc. at a young age because their parents push them in that direction.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:37 PM
the 'stache's Avatar
the 'stache the 'stache is offline
Bill Gregory
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Posts: 3,702
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Who said Roberto wouldn't have made it to 3500? The responses were to the suggestion he would have ended up as the all time hit leader.
You're right, Peter. I misread the comment. I saw it as north to 3,500 hits when it said north of 3,500 hits. I retract my statement.

I don't think there's any way Clemente got close to Cobb. Though he was still an elite player, the years of running and sliding, crashing into walls, making diving plays, etc had started to take a toll. Roberto was still in ridiculous shape though, and with the outfield depth Pittsburgh had, I think he'd have stayed fresh throughout the season. He was still going to be good for 125 games a year, and could play at a high level (.310 + AVG, elite defense. The arm was still pristine). But he wasn't going to get the 200 hits a season that used to be his norm in his prime. Just not enough at bats. But it's not a stretch to see him getting another 500 hits, and raising his career average north of .320.

He also was a good bet to crack the top ten all-time in triples. If my memory serves me correctly, nobody who started their career after WW II has more triples than Clemente's 166. He had a real shot at going over 200.

I'm guessing Roberto would have played another three or four years. I have to assume his overall game does decline some, but there's no reason why he couldn't have been worth 5 WAR a season. Even if he only plays to age 40, 15 WAR puts him right next to Mantle.
__________________
Building these sets: T206, 1953 Bowman Color, 1975 Topps.

Great transactions with: piedmont150, Cardboard Junkie, z28jd, t206blogcom, tinkertoeverstochance, trobba, Texxxx, marcdelpercio, t206hound, zachs, tolstoi, IronHorse 2130, AndyG09, BBT206, jtschantz, lug-nut, leaflover, Abravefan11, mpemulis, btcarfagno, BlueSky, and Frankbmd.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 07-12-2018, 01:00 PM
the 'stache's Avatar
the 'stache the 'stache is offline
Bill Gregory
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Posts: 3,702
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
All this WARing and JAWing misses the essence. Clemente isn't a top tier card collecting favorite because of his stats alone, he is at the pinnacle because of the other factors that make his story so compelling and that make people want to have his cards. Clemente was a great ballplayer, but he was an even greater human being. You can fling stats at each other like monkeys slinging poo but it won't change the reality on the ground, which is that if you had a son who said Al Kaline is his role model, you'd say that's nice but if he said Roberto Clemente was his role model you'd be a very proud papa.
Absolutely, Adam. It's just fun for me, as such a huge Clemente fan, to wonder about what might have been.

I think Clemente's enduring popularity, in baseball circles and within our hobby, is due to a number of factors. Yes, there's the ultimate sacrifice he made in trying to help those earthquake victims in Managua. That was the kind of man Roberto Clemente was. But, I have always chosen to focus on how he lived, and not how he died. He was a man that the Latino community could look to with pride. He was taunted for being both a black man and Hispanic, and his speech was mocked by reporters. Yet he held his head high, and was outspoken for his people. When he won the World Series MVP, he addressed his followers in Spanish on national television. And on the field, he was one of the most exciting men to ever play the game.

Wagner may be the greatest shortstop to ever play the game, but there's absolutely no question that nearly half a century after his death, Roberto Clemente is still the face of the Pittsburgh Pirates franchise.
__________________
Building these sets: T206, 1953 Bowman Color, 1975 Topps.

Great transactions with: piedmont150, Cardboard Junkie, z28jd, t206blogcom, tinkertoeverstochance, trobba, Texxxx, marcdelpercio, t206hound, zachs, tolstoi, IronHorse 2130, AndyG09, BBT206, jtschantz, lug-nut, leaflover, Abravefan11, mpemulis, btcarfagno, BlueSky, and Frankbmd.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 07-12-2018, 02:55 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 14,258
Default

I saw him play two of the 1971 WS games in Baltimore. As I recall he lit up the place and my Dad, who grew up on DiMaggio and then early Mantle, was very impressed with him.
__________________
Buy high, sell low.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 07-12-2018, 03:19 PM
71buc's Avatar
71buc 71buc is offline
Mike
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Great NW
Posts: 1,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
All this WARing and JAWing misses the essence. Clemente isn't a top tier card collecting favorite because of his stats alone, he is at the pinnacle because of the other factors that make his story so compelling and that make people want to have his cards. Clemente was a great ballplayer, but he was an even greater human being. You can fling stats at each other like monkeys slinging poo but it won't change the reality on the ground, which is that if you had a son who said Al Kaline is his role model, you'd say that's nice but if he said Roberto Clemente was his role model you'd be a very proud papa.
Well said
__________________
1971 Pirates Ticket Quest:
70 of 153 regular season stubs (46%), 14 of 14 1971 ALCS, NLCS , and World Series stubs (100%)

If you have any 1971 Pirate regular season game stubs (home or away games) please let me know what have!
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 07-12-2018, 03:58 PM
PowderedH2O PowderedH2O is offline
Sam Lemoine
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greensboro/High Point, NC
Posts: 423
Default

Of course there is no way to know the answer, but would Clemente's cards carry the same values if he had played another 2-3 years, then retired to his home in Puerto Rico and wasn't really visible in the mainland US for the rest of his life? There are dozens of solid Latin American players that go home and do great things in their communities that we never hear about. Clemente might have been one of those.
__________________
Actively bouncing aimlessly from set to set trying to accomplish something, but getting nowhere
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 07-12-2018, 04:17 PM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,944
Default

Assuming he would have still been playing, a 1974 and 1975 Topps Clemente card probably would have been a blazer.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:22 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 14,258
Default

I thought about other players whose hobby stature/card values seem to be somewhat disproportionate to their numbers/playing accomplishments. I came up with Maris, Clemente and Jeter as the top three, I guess some would include Jackie. Who else?
__________________
Buy high, sell low.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:41 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,224
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I thought about other players whose hobby stature/card values seem to be somewhat disproportionate to their numbers/playing accomplishments. I came up with Maris, Clemente and Jeter as the top three, I guess some would include Jackie. Who else?
Rose
__________________
Great experience buying from edjs and mybuddyinc. Check out my ebay store, weird, eclectic, accurate, and reasonable! http://stores.ebay.com/Aquarian-Sports-Cards Also check out http://www.birminghamauctioneers.com
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:09 PM
PowderedH2O PowderedH2O is offline
Sam Lemoine
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greensboro/High Point, NC
Posts: 423
Default

Moe Berg would be an obvious one. I even think Thurman Munson's cards are more expensive than they should be.
__________________
Actively bouncing aimlessly from set to set trying to accomplish something, but getting nowhere
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OT sort of--The Post Office is the 9th Circle of Hell Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 18 08-13-2006 10:18 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:51 AM.


ebay GSB