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Old 07-06-2018, 07:06 PM
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Default FS: 1887 Detroit Wolverines CDV (Pirated Copy)

Detroit Wolverines, 1887 team CDV. The year they won the championship. Dan Brouthers in the top row, and Deacon White in the center behind the manager. On a thick Millard Detroit mount with a decorative gilt spiral back. Rare in this small format. Photo measures 3.75" x 2.375" with the mount being slightly larger. In superb condition except for what looks like a small stain to the top left and a very small tear to the bottom right edge, barely noticeable.

UPDATE: Likely a pirated version of the Tomlinson photo.

Off the market for now.
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File Type: jpg millarddetroitcdv.jpg (78.3 KB, 406 views)
File Type: jpg millarddetroitcdv2.jpg (78.3 KB, 403 views)
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:17 PM
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That scan I posted is terrible. The picture quality is much sharper. The surface gloss has a way of bouncing back inside the scanner and affecting the image.

Here is a photo with my DSLR, next to a dime for size comparison.
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File Type: jpg wolverinescdv1.jpg (75.0 KB, 399 views)
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:42 PM
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Great image. Canít say Iíve ever seen a cdv from the 1880ís. Odd that the photographer was selling cdv images in the era of the larger format cabinet cards. Unique. Best of luck.

Rob M.
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SetBuilder View Post
Detroit Wolverines, 1887 team CDV. The year they won the championship. Dan Brouthers in the top row, and Deacon White in the center behind the manager. On a thick Millard Detroit mount with a decorative gilt spiral back. Rare in this small format. Photo measures 3.75" x 2.375" with the mount being slightly larger. In superb condition except for what looks like a small stain to the top left and a very small tear to the bottom right edge, barely noticeable.

Price is $4,000, net via PP. Priority postpaid, insured.
Hello Manny,

I may have some bad news for you, hope I'm wrong. All the authentic Tomlinson images I've studied are found on Tomlinson mounts. That is the 1887 Tomlinson team picture, most commonly found in imperial format 16x20 or regular cabinet size (4 1/4 x 6 1/2). Kalamazoo Bats would be the exception as a non-Tomlinson mount. I've never seen an authentic 1887 team picture in CDV size. I suspect this might be a close relative to a fake that surfaced in 2013 at the door step of REA. Brian Dwyer was suspicious and quickly confirmed it was a modern creation. Similar to your copy, the fake was found on a non-Tomlinson mount. Does this look like an authentic albumen print to you? I hope I'm wrong, it would be real neat to see a CDV of the 1887 team (as strange as that would be).
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COLLECTOR OF:
- 19th century Detroit memorabilia and cards with emphasis on Goodwin & Co. issues ( N172 / N173 / N175 ) and Tomlinson cabinets
- N333 SF Hess Newsboys League cards (all teams)
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_G. View Post
Hello Manny,

I may have some bad news for you, hope I'm wrong. All the authentic Tomlinson images I've studied are found on Tomlinson mounts. That is the 1887 Tomlinson team picture, most commonly found in imperial format 16x20 or regular cabinet size (4 1/4 x 6 1/2). Kalamazoo Bats would be the exception as a non-Tomlinson mount. I've never seen an authentic 1887 team picture in CDV size. I suspect this might be a close relative to a fake that surfaced in 2013 at the door step of REA. Brian Dwyer was suspicious and quickly confirmed it was a modern creation. Similar to your copy, the fake was found on a non-Tomlinson mount. Does this look like an authentic albumen print to you? I hope I'm wrong, it would be real neat to see a CDV of the 1887 team (as strange as that would be).
I looked it over carefully shortly after I bought it a few years ago and there is absolutely nothing modern about it. It is clearly albumen.

I too found it odd that it’s not on a cabinet card and was perplexed when I couldn’t find a suitable comp for pricing purposes but as I was researching it I read that it was common in that era to “pirate” other photographers’ images and use it was a kind of trade card for advertising purposes. Copyright laws didn’t really offer much protection (Mathew Brady is an example). This particular photographer was probably working on a smaller scale and reused old mounts for that purpose, or ordered cheaper smaller mounts. I suppose it’s possible also that they licensed the image for a short time. This would make sense since CDV’s were still around even in the late 1880’s and collected in albums. Even more so if there was 1887 “Championship Mania” in Detroit.

I’m sure this diminishes the value somewhat (or maybe a lot),, but it is still a neat period curiosity. .
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramram View Post
Great image. Canít say Iíve ever seen a cdv from the 1880ís. Odd that the photographer was selling cdv images in the era of the larger format cabinet cards. Unique. Best of luck.

Rob M.
Well, theyíre still selling vinyl records today in the era of streaming music.
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  #7  
Old 07-07-2018, 04:06 AM
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The mount is from Charles A. Millard's (b. 1834 - d. 1890-91) studio. He was in business as Powelson & Millard until Powelson left the studio sometime after 1880. The 1880-81 Detroit business directory lists Millard at 224 Woodward Ave. It just so happens that the Wolverines played at Recreation Park, which would be just a block east of Woodward.
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Old 07-07-2018, 10:48 AM
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Are you sure it's not a salt print?
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:06 PM
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Are you sure it's not a salt print?
No, this has the distinct look and feel of a high end studio CDV.

Luckily it's Saturday and I have all day to play History Detectives (fun!), so I fired up my Chinese microscope and dusted off my UV flashlight.

Here's a close up view of Deacon White's face under magnification, plus another area near it, along with an image of it under blacklight with a piece of modern paper for comparison. It's pitch black. I also included an image of a sideways view to show the highly polished mirror finish it has, exactly like an old stereoview.

The card even smells old. I tell you, if this isn't a vintage albumen CDV, I quit.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg deaconwhite1.jpg (69.2 KB, 405 views)
File Type: jpg detroitclose1.jpg (69.2 KB, 395 views)
File Type: jpg detroitclose1uv.jpg (37.5 KB, 404 views)
File Type: jpg detroitclose2.jpg (51.2 KB, 399 views)
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Old 07-07-2018, 02:19 PM
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To update: I took the CDV to a well respected auctioneer near my house to get a second opinion and he said he doesn't specialize in baseball but he strongly suspects that it's a pirated version not from the original negative (what I suspected). He said that pirated versions usually have blank mounts but not always. It could have either been authorized by Millard himself or perhaps the creation of a rogue employee. I asked him how he would price such an item and he said he's not sure about this particular subject, but that it should be worth significantly less than an original, but it depends on various factors...

Definitely a huge bummer.
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