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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present)

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  #51  
Old 08-25-2019, 08:15 AM
jimtb jimtb is offline
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I've been looking for a Trammell Blackless for at least 30 years. I hit the jackpot, and now have roughly two sets like this!
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  #52  
Old 08-25-2019, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jimtb View Post
I've been looking for a Trammell Blackless for at least 30 years. I hit the jackpot, and now have roughly two sets like this!
As someone who has dabbled in these, that is a cool assortment. Well done!

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  #53  
Old 08-31-2019, 04:43 PM
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Blackless cards are a long-time staple of error collecting; the 1982s simply have more examples.


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  #54  
Old 08-31-2019, 09:48 PM
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What got Blacless notoriety is Lemke listed them a separate set in the SCD Standard Catalog back when it listed post 80 issues. As a result PSA began stabbing them.

They are not really variations, just print defects but the problem occurred on 3 entire sheets , A, B and C, so there are at least 396 in a "set". There are some variants among the 396 as well, even among full blackless versions.

Some blackless cards from the D sheet have shown up on eBay, but it is not clear if all cards from that sheet can be found blackless or that the defects occurred on multiple sheets or as many times as was the case with the A,B and C cards.

B and C sheet blackless cards seem scarcer than A cards. D sheet examples are apparently even more scarce. The A, B and C blackless cards all showed up in packs. I think A and Bs in Michigan and C in NY. Not sure if Ds could be found in packs or where

Agree with Adam such blackless defects show up in other years, but apparently not to the same recurring extent over such a large number of cards as in 1982. I also have some examples from 68 and 71 like those he posted.

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 08-31-2019 at 09:55 PM.
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  #55  
Old 09-01-2019, 06:26 AM
jimtb jimtb is offline
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When you see these Trammell cards in person, it's clear to see that the black was just "running low" - it looks like your printer at home running low on ink. However, because I've been looking for a Trammell blackless for so long, that this is just the coolest thing to me.
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  #56  
Old 09-01-2019, 07:27 AM
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The 82's have a lot of errors. The blackless, blueless, and a ton of wrong backs. Has anyone seen a blackless wrong back?
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  #57  
Old 09-01-2019, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
What got Blacless notoriety is Lemke listed them a separate set in the SCD Standard Catalog back when it listed post 80 issues. As a result PSA began stabbing them.

They are not really variations, just print defects but the problem occurred on 3 entire sheets , A, B and C, so there are at least 396 in a "set". There are some variants among the 396 as well, even among full blackless versions.

Some blackless cards from the D sheet have shown up on eBay, but it is not clear if all cards from that sheet can be found blackless or that the defects occurred on multiple sheets or as many times as was the case with the A,B and C cards.

B and C sheet blackless cards seem scarcer than A cards. D sheet examples are apparently even more scarce. The A, B and C blackless cards all showed up in packs. I think A and Bs in Michigan and C in NY. Not sure if Ds could be found in packs or where

Agree with Adam such blackless defects show up in other years, but apparently not to the same recurring extent over such a large number of cards as in 1982. I also have some examples from 68 and 71 like those he posted.
All that is to me one of the biggest Topps mysteries. For most, it's enough to shrug and say "Well, Topps... " just because they did loads of odd things.

But as near as I can tell, the 364 card double sheets were printed as A and B / C and D/E and F so those pairs should be equally common.

Maybe they caught the D sheets but none of the others?
Maybe if it was the ink running out it was localized to one side of the press so very few D sheet cards didn't get missed?
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  #58  
Old 09-02-2019, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
The 82's have a lot of errors. The blackless, blueless, and a ton of wrong backs. Has anyone seen a blackless wrong back?
Not exactly what you requested but in the same ball park...



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  #59  
Old 09-02-2019, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowpopper View Post
Not exactly what you requested but in the same ball park...



Those are awesome, thanks for sharing.
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  #60  
Old 09-02-2019, 08:37 AM
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Awesome, awesome stuff, guys! I am a child of the 80s. I have often lamented the fact that my decade started the whole junk wax era. For quite a while, I didn't know there was anything worthwhile to collect from the 80s. Then, I found out about items like '82 Blackless. I have a few but not as many as I wish I had. I probably need to hit those harder.

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Last edited by vintagebaseballcardguy; 09-02-2019 at 08:49 AM.
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  #61  
Old 09-02-2019, 09:33 AM
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In my experience the toughest 80s Topps sets for me to assemble ( as listed in SCD), were the 82 Blackless, 84 Encased ( head in box prototype proofs), 85 minis in blank bank, regular back and red only back ( have not finished the red backs), the 88 Cloth and 89 Big Head Suckers . The 80 coins were the toughest but are not cards
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  #62  
Old 09-02-2019, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
In my experience the toughest 80s Topps sets for me to assemble ( as listed in SCD), were the 82 Blackless, 84 Encased ( head in box prototype proofs), 85 minis in blank bank, regular back and red only back ( have not finished the red backs), the 88 Cloth and 89 Big Head Suckers . The 80 coins were the toughest but are not cards
Al, you have mentioned those previously, and I am glad you did. I wouldn't have known about them otherwise. Admittedly, I only have some of the '82 Blackless. However, I am increasingly drawn to collecting players from my era, that I watched. I know there were great players of the past, and I have spent time and money collecting them. However, there's just something more special about collecting players from my own childhood, even if the perceived value isn't that much.

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  #63  
Old 09-02-2019, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
In my experience the toughest 80s Topps sets for me to assemble ( as listed in SCD), were the 82 Blackless, 84 Encased ( head in box prototype proofs), 85 minis in blank bank, regular back and red only back ( have not finished the red backs), the 88 Cloth and 89 Big Head Suckers . The 80 coins were the toughest but are not cards
Not really cards either but I would put the 1988 Mets/Yankees Doubleheaders. The 1989's are tough (Not the All-Stars but the Mets/Yankees test) too but not as tough as the '88s.

Last edited by Jim65; 09-02-2019 at 04:41 PM.
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  #64  
Old 09-02-2019, 04:41 PM
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I find the 1980-1990 era very rewarding to collect. Although some of the period pre-dates me (born in '85), I know all the players and you can still find a lot of unopened at reasonable prices. Not a huge fan of the design of most of the sets from 1991-1994 and I simply can't keep track of all the sets that inundated the market after '94.
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  #65  
Old 09-02-2019, 04:46 PM
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James-- agree on the Met/Yankees DHs as another tough one. Even tougher are the prototypes of that test issue.
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  #66  
Old 09-02-2019, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
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James-- agree on the Met/Yankees DHs as another tough one. Even tougher are the prototypes of that test issue.
The set with the 1988 card, some call them prototypes or proofs but I don't think they are either. They were sold in very limited places so I think they are a test. You have a wrapper from that issue, correct?

Last edited by Jim65; 09-02-2019 at 05:01 PM.
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  #67  
Old 09-02-2019, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
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Not really cards either but I would put the 1988 Mets/Yankees Doubleheaders. The 1989's are tough (Not the All-Stars but the Mets/Yankees test) too but not as tough as the '88s.
Back when I was selling a ton of cards in the late 90's I had a chance to buy a case of the 89 Mets/Yankees. I passed and bought a few cases of the 89 & 90 All-Stars instead. Wish I would have bought them all.
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  #68  
Old 09-02-2019, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
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Back when I was selling a ton of cards in the late 90's I had a chance to buy a case of the 89 Mets/Yankees. I passed and bought a few cases of the 89 & 90 All-Stars instead. Wish I would have bought them all.
Ouch
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  #69  
Old 09-02-2019, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
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Not really cards either but I would put the 1988 Mets/Yankees Doubleheaders. The 1989's are tough (Not the All-Stars but the Mets/Yankees test) too but not as tough as the '88s.
....and I have learned something yet again! Thanks, Jim. I had NO idea these things existed. I know Net54 is largely a prewar site, but you guys are dropping some serious knowledge here on the modern board. I am very interested in these along with the other issues mentioned.

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  #70  
Old 09-05-2019, 03:27 PM
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Ok back to the 1982 regular set blackless situation. Since I was reminded of this thread, I have been checking my 1982 cards (they are scattered about, so it is no simple task) and so far have not run into anything them... maybe...

So far all of the examples of the (accepted) Blackless have been either the regular player cards or the All Star versions. None of In Action, Team leaders or Checklists.

When I went through mine, I only have all 6 checklists. 1-3 are "blackless" (ie they are missing the black border around the photo frame) although they may have orange or red frame and 4-6 are normal.

#129 - Checklist 1-132
#226 - Checklist 133-264
#394 - Checklist 265-396
#491 - Checklist 397-528
#634 - Checklist 529-660
#789 - Checklist 661-792

Quick look on ebay active listings, results:
129 - none have black frame
226 - none have black frame, some have light orange frame
394 - all have orange or red frame
491 - all have black frame
634 - all have black frame
789 - all have black frame

Here is an ebay listing (not mine) that has a good look at all 6, you can definately see a trend between the first three and the second three.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/173989561330

I will try to remember to get a scan of the ones I have.
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  #71  
Old 09-06-2019, 09:33 AM
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The Blackless "set" is check listed (396) in several sources and does include IA cards ( any and all cards from sheets A, B and C ). None of the CLs in the 82 set are on the A,B and C sheets. Some are on the D sheet and one seller has offered some Blackless cards from the D sheet but it is unclear if all cards on that sheet can be found that way or if the condition is recurring.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr9...R1zd74_RQ5XPs-


Old thread


https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr9...sS1Aqn8G5PA2g-

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 09-06-2019 at 10:15 AM.
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  #72  
Old 09-06-2019, 10:54 AM
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Default 1982 Topps Blackless

I started collecting baseball cards heavily in the summer of 1982 and I literally have tons of these cards and never noticed or heard af blackless until now. Most of mine are stored in Vans Off the Wall Shoe Boxes from that era. One of these days I'll have to go through them and see if I have any blackless cards ... cool!
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  #73  
Old 09-06-2019, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
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I started collecting baseball cards heavily in the summer of 1982 and I literally have tons of these cards and never noticed or heard af blackless until now. Most of mine are stored in Vans Off the Wall Shoe Boxes from that era. One of these days I'll have to go through them and see if I have any blackless cards ... cool!
I hope you find some, they are tough, its been estimated about 100 of each exist.
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  #74  
Old 09-06-2019, 03:02 PM
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If you are in Michigan or NY your odds are better
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