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  #1  
Old 06-15-2017, 05:16 PM
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Default McDavid Outselling Crosby

Last night I came across something pretty surprising: we all know that Sidney Crosby is the best hockey player in the world, so therefore his cards must bring in the most money compared to other hockey players, right? WRONG! Connor McDavid is outselling him BIG-TIME! For example, Crosby's best card is his 05/06 Upper Deck The Cup, and it's going for approximately $3,000 to $4,000 USD. Now McDavid's 15/16 The Cup card (#'ed to 99) is bringing in approximately $14,000 to $20,000 USD - unbelievable! Even the cheaper version (The Cup Tribute) is going for $10,000+ USD.

The above is just one example as to how McDavid is outselling Crosby, and I could give a countless others, but I figured I don't need to because you all get the point, right? Despite McDavid not winning a cup yet, card collectors have nevertheless gone CRAZY over him. What do you guys think? Are you surprised by this? Do you think it's a good investment?
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Old 06-15-2017, 05:49 PM
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I don't believe in any of it, because it's artificial, manufactured scarcity.
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Old 06-15-2017, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
Last night I came across something pretty surprising: we all know that Sidney Crosby is the best hockey player in the world, so therefore his cards must bring in the most money compared to other hockey players, right? WRONG! Connor McDavid is outselling him BIG-TIME! For example, Crosby's best card is his 05/06 Upper Deck The Cup, and it's going for approximately $3,000 to $4,000 USD. Now McDavid's 15/16 The Cup card (#'ed to 99) is bringing in approximately $14,000 to $20,000 USD - unbelievable! Even the cheaper version (The Cup Tribute) is going for $10,000+ USD.

The above is just one example as to how McDavid is outselling Crosby, and I could give a countless others, but I figured I don't need to because you all get the point, right? Despite McDavid not winning a cup yet, card collectors have nevertheless gone CRAZY over him. What do you guys think? Are you surprised by this? Do you think it's a good investment?
I believe a lot has to do with Connor being new/fresh and Crosby being yesterday's news so to speak.

Also, in a lot of hockey circles, Crosby is known to be a whiner, who, unfairly gets away with a lot of things he shouldn't, and that also rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

Connor is phenomenal, and has a very bright future ahead of him, and most young kids/adults and adult collectors are focused on him and not Crosby anymore.

I know none of it makes sense as Crosby is a clear/easy choice for the HOF, but based on what I mentioned, he has fallen out of favor with a lot of people.

Connor's cards will no doubt come down after a couple years once things settle out, or if another phenom comes along, so, imo, most of his cards are currently way over priced.

Last edited by irv; 06-15-2017 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 06-15-2017, 07:59 PM
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It's interesting to me how in hockey, and to some extent basketball, they can see a 13 year old kid and pretty accurately predict superstardom, but in baseball even by the time guys are in college or the minors it's still a crapshoot if a top prospect is going to make it.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
It's interesting to me how in hockey, and to some extent basketball, they can see a 13 year old kid and pretty accurately predict superstardom, but in baseball even by the time guys are in college or the minors it's still a crapshoot if a top prospect is going to make it.
Hockey is easy, imo, as most of these phenoms stand out, head and shoulders above most kids they are playing with and against starting at a very your age.

I have seen it myself where one kid can just basically skate circles around others, stick handle in a phone booth, and have a far greater sense of what is going on on the ice than even the coaches.

As time goes on where some kids plateau out and become just another player, these kids continue to excel, out skate and out play just like when they were much younger.

Imo, most of today's younger hockey players are far more skilled and talented than what most were just 10 yrs ago.
Granted, today's game is far different, which allows this talent to shine, imo, but what some of these kids can do nowadays has just never been seen before.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:45 PM
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There's a story, who knows if it's true, about Orr. He was 14 maybe even younger I think and Boston sends someone to scout him. The scout comes back, and tells management, he could play in the NHL. Management is exasperated, tells the scout we already knew that, give us some useful information. The scout replies, you don't understand, I mean right now.
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:01 PM
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There's a story, who knows if it's true, about Orr. He was 14 maybe even younger I think and Boston sends someone to scout him. The scout comes back, and tells management, he could play in the NHL. Management is exasperated, tells the scout we already knew that, give us some useful information. The scout replies, you don't understand, I mean right now.
LOL, very well could be true as Orr was that good.

At 14, Bobby Orr came to Oshawa and likely this is when my Father/us seen him?

My Dad remembers Orr playing road hockey out in front of our place here in Oshawa when I was just a wee lad. Unfortunately, my Father never got an autograph but being in the Bruins farm city at the time, seeing great upcoming players, wasn't that unusual.
http://oshawagenerals.com/bobby-orr

The hockey world will forever remember him as No. 4, but when the remarkable career of Robert Gordon “Bobby” Orr began, it the Parry Sound native wore No. 2 for the Oshawa Generals.

Orr first came to Oshawa as a 14-year-old phenom for the 1962-63 season and starred with the Generals for four years, helping the Generals capture the OHL Championship in 1966.

His explosive offensive style made him and instant sensation in Oshawa and he went on to a glorious National Hockey League career with the Boston Bruins, becoming one of the greatest defensemen in hockey history. In four seasons as a General, he complied 278 points in 194 games while playing most of that time against players several years older.

The only defenseman in NHL history to win the Art Ross Trophy as scoring champion (he did it twice), Orr won eight consecutive Norris Trophies as the NHL’s best defenseman and amassed 915 points in just 657 NHL regular season games. He still holds the NHL records for most points by a defenseman in a season (139), most assists by a defenseman (102) and best plus/minus of any position player (+124).

He was elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1979 after the mandatory three-year wait period was waved, and become the youngest player ever inducted at the age of 31. Despite numerous knee injuries, he is still considered the greatest defenseman in NHL history and was named an Officer of the Order of Canada in 1979.

On November 27, 2008, in front of an over-flow crowd of 6,253 fans, the always humble Orr finally agreed to allow Oshawa hockey fanes to pay tribute to a player that changed the game forever, and will certainly never be forgotten.
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:16 AM
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Nice post, Irv. One other thing that most fans don't remember: Orr debuted in the NHL wearing No. 27.
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Old 06-16-2017, 08:47 AM
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I never tire of the Orr v Gretzky debates, meaningless as the ultimately are.
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:41 AM
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Nice post, Irv. One other thing that most fans don't remember: Orr debuted in the NHL wearing No. 27.
I did not know that either. Thanks for the info.

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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I never tire of the Orr v Gretzky debates, meaningless as the ultimately are.
2 different players, imo, but both equally talented in their respective positions.
If Orr was protected like Gretzky was, I am sure his numbers and his career would have been much higher and longer.
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:01 PM
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I believe a lot has to do with Connor being new/fresh and Crosby being yesterday's news so to speak.

Also, in a lot of hockey circles, Crosby is known to be a whiner, who, unfairly gets away with a lot of things he shouldn't, and that also rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

Connor is phenomenal, and has a very bright future ahead of him, and most young kids/adults and adult collectors are focused on him and not Crosby anymore.

I know none of it makes sense as Crosby is a clear/easy choice for the HOF, but based on what I mentioned, he has fallen out of favor with a lot of people.

Connor's cards will no doubt come down after a couple years once things settle out, or if another phenom comes along, so, imo, most of his cards are currently way over priced.
Nice post, Dale. Yes, I also agree that McDavid's cards are overpriced now. If McDavid does not win the cup in the next 2-3 years, then we will see collectors get nervous and start dumping these cards on eBay, in my opinion.

I think getting Crosby's The Cup Rookie for around $3,000 or so is a good deal. He can still win another cup (or two) and then the value of this card will increase, for sure.
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:20 PM
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i don't know, for every orr or mcdavid there's a alexander daigle or jason bonsignore. most #1 picks in basketball are at least all stars bordering on HOF'ers, while in hockey you have solid guys like ed jovanovski and roman hamrlik. solid nhl players but nowhere near the franchise changer.

i do agree mcdavid outselling crosby is a joke. i would think crosby's career would be in the 90th+ percentile of mcdavid's career projection. if mcdavid somehow surpasses even that he'll be a top 2-3 players in hockey history....then you're talking about gretzky orr lemieux howe.

edit: i LOVE hockey, and hockey players, and hockey cards...but base on my experience you should not be investing in hockey cards!
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:37 PM
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http://www.landofbasketball.com/draf...er_1_picks.htm

Seems to me a fair number of guys here who did not work out so well.
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Old 06-16-2017, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
Nice post, Dale. Yes, I also agree that McDavid's cards are overpriced now. If McDavid does not win the cup in the next 2-3 years, then we will see collectors get nervous and start dumping these cards on eBay, in my opinion.

I think getting Crosby's The Cup Rookie for around $3,000 or so is a good deal. He can still win another cup (or two) and then the value of this card will increase, for sure.
Thanks, Samosa, and I agree. Just wish I could say I owned one!

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i don't know, for every orr or mcdavid there's a alexander daigle or jason bonsignore. most #1 picks in basketball are at least all stars bordering on HOF'ers, while in hockey you have solid guys like ed jovanovski and roman hamrlik. solid nhl players but nowhere near the franchise changer.

i do agree mcdavid outselling crosby is a joke. i would think crosby's career would be in the 90th+ percentile of mcdavid's career projection. if mcdavid somehow surpasses even that he'll be a top 2-3 players in hockey history....then you're talking about gretzky orr lemieux howe.

edit: i LOVE hockey, and hockey players, and hockey cards...but base on my experience you should not be investing in hockey cards!
I think the whole Daigle situation/hype embarrassed the NHL, as, imo, they seem much more careful nowadays when they are touting/spouting off about the next best thing to come along.

The Daigle era was at a funny time in the NHL. They were trying to expand/popularize the game but unfortunately, this backfired on them.

Remember the Manon Rheaume hype as well?
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Old 06-16-2017, 04:49 PM
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Some unique circumstances perhaps, but Eric Lindros, the so-called (or was it self-appointed?) "Next One" didn't quite live up to hype either.

Was Manon Rheaume actually considered to have a chance or was it just a publicity stunt?
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Old 06-16-2017, 05:01 PM
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It was Don Cherry who gave the best analysis of what happened to Lindros career.

He said that in juniors, Lindros got into the horrible habit of watching the puck onto his stick, but since he was so big when the other kids would line him up for a big hit they would just bounce off.

Lindros was never able to break the habit. In the NHL, those guys don't bounce off. And Scott Stevens will kill you.
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Old 06-16-2017, 05:04 PM
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edit: i LOVE hockey, and hockey players, and hockey cards...but base on my experience you should not be investing in hockey cards!
This is what people said in the past and look what ended up happening. There are a few sellers that I know who picked up vintage high-grade singles, complete sets, etc. and made a killing. Remember, the intelligent investor will NEVER follow the crowd!
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Old 06-16-2017, 06:48 PM
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Some unique circumstances perhaps, but Eric Lindros, the so-called (or was it self-appointed?) "Next One" didn't quite live up to hype either.

Was Manon Rheaume actually considered to have a chance or was it just a publicity stunt?
Quote:
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It was Don Cherry who gave the best analysis of what happened to Lindros career.

He said that in juniors, Lindros got into the horrible habit of watching the puck onto his stick, but since he was so big when the other kids would line him up for a big hit they would just bounce off.

Lindros was never able to break the habit. In the NHL, those guys don't bounce off. And Scott Stevens will kill you.
Lindros, considering the era he played in, and with a big target on his back, had remarkable numbers, imo, and it's no fluke he is in the HOF.
He missed how many games due to injury and still put up exceptional numbers?
His downfall was his reputation and people jumping on him for that.
Bobby Clarke was once asked his thoughts on Lindros, and he said, once you removed all the baggage, mostly from his Mother, who was referred to as the Bonster (her name was Bonnie) he was an incredible hockey player with elite skills.
Personally, if you watch hockeyfights.com, namely, Lindros', you will see how often he was targeted and how often he had to drop them. Imagine having to be looking over your shoulder at all times, having to drop the gloves way more frequently than most players and still put up numbers like this:
865 points in 760 career games, from a relatively young kid, in yesterdays style of hockey, is nothing to snicker at.

Scott Stevens, when asked about Lindros, hates talking about the hit that ended his career. Stevens got caught up in the hype, and also targeted Lindros and never missed an opportunity to hit him nor fight him.
In retrospect, he feels bad and wished he had of minded his own business and just played the game without that mental distraction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH4AILBsMTw
https://www.nhl.com/player/eric-lindros-8458515
https://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke...l-of-fame.html

One might think I'm biased because I never missed a home game when Lindros played for the Oshawa Generals, but ask most in the hockey world who have watched him or played with or against him and they'll tell you the same thing. He was determined, talented and highly skilled and brought to the game something that had never been seen before. He could not only handle his own, he could put the puck in the net as well.
https://www.nhl.com/news/eric-lindro...me/c-283567428
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHw0SHaRB1Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1CZSGZenbc

Last edited by irv; 06-16-2017 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:07 PM
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Wasn't Crosby 10k + at one time? His card has really dropped after winning 3 Cups and back to back Conn Smythe.
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Old 06-16-2017, 08:17 PM
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Wasn't Crosby 10k + at one time? His card has really dropped after winning 3 Cups and back to back Conn Smythe.
Are you referring to his Cup rookie or was it something else you saw? How could it drop by $6,000 - $7,000 USD after winning all these cups and awards? That doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe you saw one graded BGS 10 Pristine or one that was #'ed 87/87 or 87/99.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:52 PM
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Are you referring to his Cup rookie or was it something else you saw? How could it drop by $6,000 - $7,000 USD after winning all these cups and awards? That doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe you saw one graded BGS 10 Pristine or one that was #'ed 87/87 or 87/99.
http://www.cardboardconnection.com/t...s-of-the-2000s

An article from a few years ago references sales at 10k. The only recent sales that I can find are the parallel /87 at 2900, 3300 and 5000. I am questioning if the true rookie /99 has really dropped. Does anyone have a link to completed sales for the RC /99?
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:34 PM
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I was just looking at Crosby cards and as usual there are tons of versions even within Upper Deck. I also noticed this from 2 years earlier, minor league card but seems to be pretty high quality. Is it just junk?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-04-NHL-...sAAOSwezVW1Hwd
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Old 06-17-2017, 01:38 AM
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unless you're canadian (and even then)...if you want to invest in sports cards i would advise baseball all the way. i don't know anything about the vintage hockey scene, but would bet if hockey has 2x the last few years, than the postwar/prewar baseball market has 4x-5x in comparison.
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Old 06-17-2017, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I was just looking at Crosby cards and as usual there are tons of versions even within Upper Deck. I also noticed this from 2 years earlier, minor league card but seems to be pretty high quality. Is it just junk?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-04-NHL-...sAAOSwezVW1Hwd
Surprisingly, being CDN and all, I don't know a lot about hockey cards and what is popular and what isn't, nor do I know the overall demand.

Personally, I would check out this site if I was wondering, wanting to learn more about Hockey related memorabilia and cards.
http://vintagehockeyforum.com/forum/main-forum
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Old 06-17-2017, 11:47 AM
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unless you're canadian (and even then)...if you want to invest in sports cards i would advise baseball all the way. i don't know anything about the vintage hockey scene, but would bet if hockey has 2x the last few years, than the postwar/prewar baseball market has 4x-5x in comparison.
I know that baseball cards are the best, and I'm not trying to dispute that here, but they have been expensive for a long time. In other words, for you to have made more money in baseball cards, you would have had to spend a lot more as well, and not all investors want to take a bigger risk by doing this. Anyways, it's always a good idea to diversify.
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Old 06-17-2017, 12:01 PM
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Anything can turn out to be a good investment if your timing is right. By far the best purchase I ever made in terms of a return were a bunch of Tiger Woods rookie sets just before he started on his tear of Grand Slams. Paid $9 each and for a while they were selling north of $300 lol. I have more than atoned by overpaying for stuff since.
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Old 06-17-2017, 01:29 PM
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Baseball is always going to be king price wise, but I think some of the sports outside the big four and some non-sports have been "undervalued" forever. David Peck has written on here often about the sharp price appreciation of his Wrestling All-Star cards in recent years. Sure, none of the cards are $10,000 cards, but Mr. Peck has written that he never thought he would see some of his Wrestling All-Star cards climb to $1,000+. Some of the non-sports sets/cards outside the big four still have lots of room to grow, IMO.

I collect the 1972 STP racing set (which is where the card in my avatar comes from). Prices really seem to have risen on those cards over the past couple years.

Last edited by Bored5000; 06-17-2017 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 06-17-2017, 02:03 PM
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Anything can turn out to be a good investment if your timing is right. By far the best purchase I ever made in terms of a return were a bunch of Tiger Woods rookie sets just before he started on his tear of Grand Slams. Paid $9 each and for a while they were selling north of $300 lol. I have more than atoned by overpaying for stuff since.
Good job, Peter!

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Baseball is always going to be king price wise, but I think some of sports outside the big four and some non-sports have been "undervalued" forever. David Peck has written on here often about the sharp price appreciation of his Wrestling All-Star cards in recent years. Sure, none of the cards are $10,000 cards, but Mr. Peck has written that he never thought he would see some of his Wrestling All-Star cards climb to $1,000+. Some of the non-sports sets/cards outside the big four still have lots of room to grow, IMO.

I collect the 1972 STP racing set (which is where the card in my avatar comes from). Prices really seem to have risen on those cards over the past couple years.
Great post. Yes, there is still plenty of room for these cards to grow. By the way, what are the top 3 racing cards out there? I wouldn't mind picking them up!

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Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
http://www.cardboardconnection.com/t...s-of-the-2000s

An article from a few years ago references sales at 10k. The only recent sales that I can find are the parallel /87 at 2900, 3300 and 5000. I am questioning if the true rookie /99 has really dropped. Does anyone have a link to completed sales for the RC /99?
It's all very confusing. According to my research, majority of hockey collectors prefer the base card (#'ed /99). The Gold version is considered an insert and is supposed to be worth less. And yes, it would be nice if someone on this forum could tell us about the prices on this card. Has it really dropped by $6,000+ even though he keeps winning? If so, that would be very shocking.

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Originally Posted by irv View Post

One might think I'm biased because I never missed a home game when Lindros played for the Oshawa Generals, but ask most in the hockey world who have watched him or played with or against him and they'll tell you the same thing. He was determined, talented and highly skilled and brought to the game something that had never been seen before. He could not only handle his own, he could put the puck in the net as well.
https://www.nhl.com/news/eric-lindro...me/c-283567428
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHw0SHaRB1Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1CZSGZenbc
I was too small when Lindros playing for Oshawa. I have always wanted to see his Oshawa games and I even contacted the Generals to see if they had any in their archives, but nope, nothing.
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Old 06-17-2017, 02:31 PM
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I love talking racing cards. IMO, the top racing cards in the hobby are:

1. 1986 SportStar Photo-Graphic Dale Earnhardt
2. 1972 STP Fred Lorenzen with car (my avatar)
3. 1972 STP Bobby Allison
4. 1972 STP Richard Petty
5. Any of the Marhoefer Meats A.J. Foyt cards that were produced over a five-year period from 1961-1965
6. 1911 T36 Barney Oldfield
7. 1988 and 1989 MAXX Dale Earnhardt

Some of those cards (like the Lorenzen with car card and Bobby Allison card from the STP set are extreme rarities). The MAXX Dale Earnhardt cards are a bit like '52 Topps Mickey Mantle in that they are very easy to find, but those two cards are the cards most commonly thought of when someone says "auto racing card." I am still trying to pick up an Earnhardt SportStar Photo-Graphics card; I have lost out at auction a couple times over the past 2-3 years.

The '88 version of the Earnhardt MAXX card has a bit of a back story in that the card was not officially released in 1988 because MAXX could not come to an agreement with him. Some '88 Earnhardt cards were released without company consent and MAXX did then officially release 999 of the 1988 cards with a serial number several years later. Low grade and ungraded examples of the MAXX Earnhardt cards can be found fairly cheap on eBay.

Lorenzen with car from the 1972 STP set is a legendary rarity to the point that racing collector Jon Hardgrove wrote on the net54 non-sports board that he saw just one example of the card in 26 years of collecting. I bought some STP cards from a lady in her 70s in Connecticut a couple years ago, and she invited me to call her up on the phone to talk about the set. The STP cards were originally a free handout at the 1972 Daytona 500 (and possibly at Talladega that year as well).

For some reason, however, the Lorenzen with car card was not among those handed out at Daytona. The lady I talked with in Connecticut said it took her over 20 years of searching to find an example of the Lorenzen with car card, and that one had a pinhole in it.

The STP cards are an 11-card set; some cards in the set are very easy to find, and some cards in the set are near impossible. Within the past year, two Lorenzen with car cards actually showed up on eBay and about half a dozen Richard Petty 1972 STP cards have appeared on eBay. I like collecting racing because there are only a small handful of cards that sell for over $500 individually. The Lorenzen with car card may be the only racing card that sells for over $1,000 at auction.

The Petty card ftom the '72 STP set does show up several times a year, and can be had in the $150-200 range, unless the card is extremely high-grade.

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Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post
Good job, Peter!



Great post. Yes, there is still plenty of room for these cards to grow. By the way, what are the top 3 racing cards out there? I wouldn't mind picking them up!



It's all very confusing. According to my research, majority of hockey collectors prefer the base card (#'ed /99). The Gold version is considered an insert and is supposed to be worth less. And yes, it would be nice if someone on this forum could tell us about the prices on this card. Has it really dropped by $6,000+ even though he keeps winning? If so, that would be very shocking.



I was too small when Lindros playing for Oshawa. I have always wanted to see his Oshawa games and I even contacted the Generals to see if they had any in their archives, but nope, nothing.

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Old 06-17-2017, 02:33 PM
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Here is a link to the vintage racing discussion on the main board. There is a ton of interesting discussion about the main racing sets and the major racing cards in the hobby in that thread.

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=220356
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Old 06-17-2017, 04:45 PM
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Irv,

Enjoyed very much reading your Bobby Orr posts. I wonder how many people down here in the US realize that these kids in Canada leave home at the young age they do to play Major Junior. That's what it means to be a national pastime. On my bucket list is a trans Canada trip via rail to catch as many games as possible in a two week period or so of the WHL and OHL. Might try my hand at the QMJHL also, but my French is non-existent. Some day I hope.
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Old 06-17-2017, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by samosa4u View Post

I was too small when Lindros playing for Oshawa. I have always wanted to see his Oshawa games and I even contacted the Generals to see if they had any in their archives, but nope, nothing.
Like I mentioned, I never missed a game, including his home opener/debut.
Like this vid, there are many you can watch via youtube. Just scroll down the right side and you will see for yourself. Likely not all that you are after, but still some pretty good clips there. I regret never saving any of my tickets. Not that they are likely worth anything, I just wish I had some, especially his home opener/debut
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W4YfbXkzWA

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Originally Posted by 58pinson View Post
Irv,

Enjoyed very much reading your Bobby Orr posts. I wonder how many people down here in the US realize that these kids in Canada leave home at the young age they do to play Major Junior. That's what it means to be a national pastime. On my bucket list is a trans Canada trip via rail to catch as many games as possible in a two week period or so of the WHL and OHL. Might try my hand at the QMJHL also, but my French is non-existent. Some day I hope.
My Boss's brother, from Stirling Ont, (not far from Cobourg/Belleville) was drafted by the Soo St. Marie Greyhounds of the OHL but didn't go because of the huge change/undertaking that was involved with such a move.
It entails not only moving far far away from home, but also living with billets, going to a new school, making new friends, etc, etc.
It is not an easy thing to do for a 15-16 yr old let alone an adult, but that's what takes if you want to continue on with the NHL dream.

I currently work with John Goodwin. He was the OHL scoring leader for the Soo Greyhounds and was drafted by the Montreal CDN's. Despite his scoring prowess/skill, he never did crack their lineup and eventually, after trying a few other different avenues, packed it in, unfortunately.
http://www.saultstar.com/2013/03/07/...1980-81-season

I also have a friend, Brian Heard, who's son, Mitch was drafted 41st overall but hasn't played in one NHL game yet.
It is tough! From the early days at the rink at a very young age, to numerous amounts of travel, practices, camps, tournaments, etc, etc and to be never called up or make the big team, is a huge disappointment, but most adults/kids know this is a possibility but in order to live their dream, this is what it takes.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=122869

(Some miscellaneous pics of my son below and some other pics of my son with Bryan Bickell with the Stanley Cup he won with the Chicago Blackhawks and a couple others with Andrew Shaw formerly from the Hawks but now with Montreal. He actually got to play a game of shinny with Andrew! )

Your bucket list item sounds like a great one, 58 Pinson! Something I wouldn't mind doing myself someday.
I have traveled far and wide with my son's hockey but we have never been to Quebec to play. I speak about as much French as you but I still think that would be fun.
He is now only playing house league and High School hockey so my travelling days are likely far behind me, but despite how busy it was, it was also a lot of fun.

Glad you enjoy my Orr story.
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Old 06-17-2017, 09:27 PM
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Wow! Great pics of your son Irv. Your mention of the Soo Greyhounds forced me to drag out my now almost 25 year old Soo sweatshirt and take a look at the names on the mini jerseys on it's front - Ron Francis, Rick Tocchet, Wayne Gretzky, Paul Coffey, and John Vanbiesbrouck. That club has had some great players. Also have a Brandon Wheat Kings gamer from '92-93 of Colin Cloutier, drafted in the 2nd round by the Lightning. Unfortunately he got busted up and never fulfilled his potential.
Since we're talking Junior Hockey I thought, on the 1 in a 1,000 chance that you haven't heard of it, I'd mention the movie "Youngblood" with Rob Lowe and a bunch of other familiar faces. Eric Nesterenko has the part of Lowe's father as sort of a cameo. Always make a point of watching it when the season gets started.
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Old 06-17-2017, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58pinson View Post
Wow! Great pics of your son Irv. Your mention of the Soo Greyhounds forced me to drag out my now almost 25 year old Soo sweatshirt and take a look at the names on the mini jerseys on it's front - Ron Francis, Rick Tocchet, Wayne Gretzky, Paul Coffey, and John Vanbiesbrouck. That club has had some great players. Also have a Brandon Wheat Kings gamer from '92-93 of Colin Cloutier, drafted in the 2nd round by the Lightning. Unfortunately he got busted up and never fulfilled his potential.
Since we're talking Junior Hockey I thought, on the 1 in a 1,000 chance that you haven't heard of it, I'd mention the movie "Youngblood" with Rob Lowe and a bunch of other familiar faces. Eric Nesterenko has the part of Lowe's father as sort of a cameo. Always make a point of watching it when the season gets started.
Yes, the Soo has definitely developed some great hockey players over the years, that's for sure.

I'm not sure how many times I have watched Youngblood, but it is a lot. As hormone raging, barley out of my teens kid, I'm not sure what I enjoyed more, the hockey or seeing Cynthia Gibb? LOL

Also, I had no idea, until now, Rob Lowe's Dad in the movie was a hockey player. I assumed back then he was just an actor. Thanks for the info.
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  #35  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:59 AM
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Alright, now to get back on topic here (lol), it looks like I made a mistake. In my original post, I stated that Crosby's The Cup Rookie is going for $3,000 - $4,000 USD, however, those sale prices I came across were for the Gold version (#'ed /87) and not the base card (which is #'ed /99). On April 28th 2016, PWCC sold one example for almost $11,000 USD. Here is the link below:

https://www.pwccauctions.com/item.php?item_id=1272819

According to my research, majority of hockey collectors collect the base cards, so this is why the one #'ed to /99 (a base card and his true rookie) is worth 3 - 4 times more than the gold version (an insert). Check this thread out below:

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/h...much-less.html

So it looks to me as if the prices have not dropped over the years. The gold version has gone up a bit, and I am going to assume that his base card is probably worth $12,000+.

Anyhow, McDavid's cards are still going for more and I still find this surprising considering Crosby is currently the best player in the world with 3 rings.
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:56 PM
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What's funny to me is that I wouldn't recognize either of the cards you mentioned. I live in the south, but I have a decent hockey card collection. But, in the 1990's/2000's when the companies kept changing and I couldn't keep up with who was making what product on any given year, I just gave up. So, my hockey collection is stagnant. I am not going back any further, because I never saw hockey in the 1950's or before, and I wouldn't even know what to buy for the current stuff. I don't feel like putting $300-$500 into a current set. So, my stuff kinda stops in the 2001/2002 area.

As far as the values, it is just terrible. Here in Carolina, we had Eric Staal. I have a number of his rookie cards, but none of them are worth anything. I think in the NHL, only the highest fruit are worth picking. The guys that are having strong careers, but aren't among that Gretzky/Orr/Crosby level are just not worth much. Heck, Ron Francis retired as the #4 scorer in NHL history, and his rookies are worth slightly more than a McDonald's Happy Meal. I just don't think the money is worth putting into it, and that's a shame, because I love the game.
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:42 PM
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I am not going back any further, because I never saw hockey in the 1950's or before

And that's why hockey card collecting sucks for you, because you refuse to collect vintage . The best ones are vintage: Howe, Sawchuk, Plante, Richard, Orr, Hull, Esposito, Morenz, Shore, Mikita, Keon, Vezina, Conacher, Apps, Broda, etc. I could give you a HUGE list, and all these cards are pretty valuable.

Heck, Ron Francis retired as the #4 scorer in NHL history, and his rookies are worth slightly more than a McDonald's Happy Meal.

There are two reasons why hockey cards from the 1980s aren't worth much:

1) They were mass-produced.

2) A lot of cards from this decade have a Topps and an O-Pee-Chee version (example, Patrick Roy has a Topps RC and an O-Pee-Chee RC).
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:12 AM
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I have to jump in a tad on this as I think Crosby has a bit of a strange aura on his cards that keeps them lower.

That is the fact that much like comparing the value of LeBron rookies, when a huge segment of fans absolutely hate the player, it can slow demand. As a resident of Detroit, I can easily say I have never met a Crosby fan that wasn't visiting. Many other major cities have the same feelings.

He's the greatest player in the world, and visiting my inlaws in Pittsburgh puts me in different crowd that speaks of the kid in reverence. Outside of of Pennsylvania though, I am likely to hear the same things...cheap shot artist, whiner, and diver.

McDavid has none of the baggage and is more likely to reach the level of love that Gretzky had in fans minds...whether he does it or not in the future.
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Old 07-22-2017, 11:27 AM
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Great post, Justin.

People have always called Crosby a cry-baby, diver, etc. but did they ever realize that this guy doesn't have an enforcer to watch his back? How many big, strong guys protected Gretzky? Quite a few. Even McDavid has Lucic. Crosby has no one, and yet he just won two cups back-to-back and that's very impressive. Put it this way: if you have to put up with so much abuse game after game, aren't you going to become a whiner? He gets his head bashed in frequently, gets elbowed, and nasty things are said to him, heck, he even had one guy spray him what his water bottle - can you blame Crosby for acting the way he does? Oh, and he has also suffered around 5 concussions and the man is only 29 years old.

I like how you mention LeBron James - yes, both of these athletes share many similarities. A lot of people hate James, but they would LOVE to have him play for their team, right?
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Old 07-25-2017, 10:34 AM
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Having seen Mario Lemieux play in person at least 50 times, I can say that Crosby learned from the best. Lemieux was a big, bruising player that I saw deliver crushing shots and many dirty hits. But, if someone hit him, oh, it was as if he was some innocent choirboy that was just being bullied. Yes, Gretzky had people to protect him, but Gretzky also did not deliver the dirty shots. Lemieux gave as much as he received. Maybe more.

Lemieux is such a hypocrite. He complains about how Crosby gets beat up, but then he associates himself with guys like Ulf Samuelsson, Matt Cooke, and Brooks Orpik. As a Hurricanes fan, I've witnessed two of my guys get taken out by vicious dirty hits from Pens players under Lemieux's watch. In our Stanley Cup run of 2006, Orpik boarded Erik Cole so badly that it broke his neck, and Cole never was the same player again. Cole was our #2 guy, right after Eric Staal. If that had happened to Malkin or Crosby, Mario would have gone through the roof. If Crosby or Malkin received the dirty hit that Marc Savard got from Matt Cooke, Mario would be crying to Bettman all day long. But, Cooke wouldn't have gotten that shot on Savard if Mario hadn't kept him, even after suspensions for dirty hits to Anisimov and Walker earlier.

In baseball, if a pitcher is a known headhunter, sometimes the opposing pitcher will go after a hitter for the headhunter's team in retaliation. Well, the Pens have had their share of thugs for years, so other teams make sure that they retaliate against the Pens' top asset: Crosby.

I think Crosby is a great player. But, I don't care for his complaining, especially when he is guilty of everything he complains about. I've yet to see Connor McDavid do any of this. I hope he never does. Believe me, if an Edmonton vs Pittsburgh final comes up next year (and it certainly might), this is one American that will be rooting 100% for the Oilers.
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Old 07-25-2017, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
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Having seen Mario Lemieux play in person at least 50 times, I can say that Crosby learned from the best. Lemieux was a big, bruising player that I saw deliver crushing shots and many dirty hits. But, if someone hit him, oh, it was as if he was some innocent choirboy that was just being bullied. Yes, Gretzky had people to protect him, but Gretzky also did not deliver the dirty shots. Lemieux gave as much as he received. Maybe more.

Lemieux is such a hypocrite. He complains about how Crosby gets beat up, but then he associates himself with guys like Ulf Samuelsson, Matt Cooke, and Brooks Orpik. As a Hurricanes fan, I've witnessed two of my guys get taken out by vicious dirty hits from Pens players under Lemieux's watch. In our Stanley Cup run of 2006, Orpik boarded Erik Cole so badly that it broke his neck, and Cole never was the same player again. Cole was our #2 guy, right after Eric Staal. If that had happened to Malkin or Crosby, Mario would have gone through the roof. If Crosby or Malkin received the dirty hit that Marc Savard got from Matt Cooke, Mario would be crying to Bettman all day long. But, Cooke wouldn't have gotten that shot on Savard if Mario hadn't kept him, even after suspensions for dirty hits to Anisimov and Walker earlier.

In baseball, if a pitcher is a known headhunter, sometimes the opposing pitcher will go after a hitter for the headhunter's team in retaliation. Well, the Pens have had their share of thugs for years, so other teams make sure that they retaliate against the Pens' top asset: Crosby.

I think Crosby is a great player. But, I don't care for his complaining, especially when he is guilty of everything he complains about. I've yet to see Connor McDavid do any of this. I hope he never does. Believe me, if an Edmonton vs Pittsburgh final comes up next year (and it certainly might), this is one American that will be rooting 100% for the Oilers.
Matt Cooke, I was going to say don't get me started, but it's too late!

On his profile, it reads he was born in Belleville Ont, but he was actually born in Stirling, just north of there. My boss at work, who I have written about in this thread knows him and certainly doesn't speak highly of him!
He told me how his Dad/parents did everything for him to achieve his goal of playing in the NHL but he has given zero back to them,,,, ever! He is a real scumbag!
When he won the Stanley Cup with Pitts, he was going to bring the Cup to Stirling, as most players do with their home towns, but he never showed!
The town organized a parade, hung banners, got word out, etc, but sadly, without notification, Cooke nor the Cup showed up! Being such a small town, this was a big deal to them that one of their own won the Cup and was bring it home. People, to say the least were disappointed, but those that knew him, or of him, like my boss, weren't surprised in the least. They knew he was that kind of person.

Don Cherry hated him, and rightfully so. Cooke even went at Don Cherry, if you can imagine that, but Cherry did not back down and told him right to his face!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nig2naN8NTs

This is the best video ever of Matt Cooke. I just wish it lasted longer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW9Sp-WndwA

This is another one, Karma, what goes around comes around! Cooke deserved everything he got and was one of the most hated hockey players in the NHL at that time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbYJHbU0XOE

Keith, who is no angel himself, also got him good after Cooke tried the same
thing with him. I just wish, like Cooke did to Savard, that Keith's hit put him out for good!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_nWxWdSvY0

I also believe, and nothing will ever change my mind, even though the NHL said it was accidental, that Cooke's slash to the back of Karlsson's achilles tendon was intentional.
People can watch and say, no way, but he was a cheap shot artist and I truly believe what he did, was intentional, premeditated and deliberate!

Speaking of Lemieux, and I agree with everything that you say, by the way, I was once told Gordie Howe grabbed him by his throat and brought him to his knees after he refused to sign some kids hockey cards.
Allegedly, Howe told him, these kids/fans pay your salary so don't forget that, and supposedly Lemieux obliged after that interaction with Howe.
Got too love Gordie Howe!
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