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  #1  
Old 05-08-2017, 07:28 AM
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Dustin
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Default Some more on mr. Mays

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article...gue-mlb-awards

Pretty outstanding info in this article and it leaves you scratching your head a bit.
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  #2  
Old 05-08-2017, 01:03 PM
brian1961 brian1961 is offline
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Dustin,

Honestly, my head is not itching at all. The writer attributes value totally based upon statistics and metrics that were unheard of in the 50s and 50s. As the years wore on in Willie's great career, the shadow kept looming larger and larger---no matter what he achieved, the Giants rarely appeared in the World Series. When they finally made it by beating the Dodgers in the 1962 play-off, how did Mr. Mays do in the World Series? As close of a series as it was, the Giants made the Yankees sweat bullets not because of Willie.

The men who won those MVP awards deserved them, and Willie definitely deserved his in 1954. Yeah, Duke should have won it in '55. Here we go again.

I'm just glad I never stood in line to pay to get Say Hey's autograph. Better stop there.

---Brian Powell
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  #3  
Old 05-08-2017, 02:59 PM
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Dustin
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Hey Brian , I also noticed that the writer used stats that were not used back then. But I still agree about a lot of what he said especially 1964. They did seem to base the MVP award more on how your team did for the year. Which I don't agree with. 1962 Mays did not have a great World Series but he sure did help his team get to the show.

Ps
I don't know about you but if I signed a million autographs in uncomfortable condition talking to all sorts of people sooner or latter I'm going to be a jerk.
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  #4  
Old 05-08-2017, 06:05 PM
KCRfan1 KCRfan1 is offline
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I would hope Mays inquired about the conditions his signings would take place, the number of signatures or length of time to sign, and his compensation.

Those would be terms he agreed to at the time.

Some former players have websites that items can be mailed to, and for a fee the items will be signed. Johnny Bench is one who does this. He's very much aware of the resale market, and his signature has value. This is an easy way to separate a collector from one who just wants to make a buck and flip memorabilia .

Scenario's like this are a win / win to me.
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  #5  
Old 05-08-2017, 10:59 PM
mrmopar mrmopar is offline
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and then there are the guys like Feller and Doerr (which just signed a 51T Blue Back TTM for me right around his 99th birthday) who seemed to really enjoy their fan interactions and apparently didn't care about resale value.
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  #6  
Old 05-09-2017, 11:22 AM
brian1961 brian1961 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookiemonster View Post
Hey Brian , I also noticed that the writer used stats that were not used back then. But I still agree about a lot of what he said especially 1964. They did seem to base the MVP award more on how your team did for the year. Which I don't agree with. 1962 Mays did not have a great World Series but he sure did help his team get to the show.

Ps
I don't know about you but if I signed a million autographs in uncomfortable condition talking to all sorts of people sooner or latter I'm going to be a jerk.
Dustin,

In 1964 Ken Boyer had what amounted to his career year, helping the Cards make it to the Series. He had a lot of help with Lou Brock and Bob Gibson; but apparently to the sportswriters, Ken's performance stood out the most. Same scenario with Dick Groat in 1960. I'm sure the same was true for Orlando Cepeda in 1967, Don Newcombe in 1956, and certainly Henry Aaron in 1957. Obviously, these gents did not get their team into the World Series single-handedly. However, and this is where pure stat metrics fall short to a degree, the sportswriters who covered baseball in those given years, game by game, and who were given the right to cast their ballots for the MVP awards, had a really good handle on who was indespenseible to their team, and came through in clutch situations most often.

Being an Ernie Banks fan, I was happy he won those two years. The Cubs would have been toast without him. Sure, they had some decent players, but Ernie drove in so many runs and kept the Cubs a serious threat to any team that looked on them as a doormat. Their biggest weakness in those years was weak pitching, among other things.

Please, do not think I feel Willie was not an all-time great. He most assuredly was. The feeling in my neighborhood (Chicago suburbs) was that Willie Mays was the number one player in the NL. That's how I felt, too. You are sure right about Willie helping the Giants get to the Series in '62; he had a terrific season. Again, we have Maury Wills having his career-defining year, as well as Don Drysdale and Tommy Davis, for that matter. Sandy Koufax's late season finger problem hurt them badly. Obviously, he turned that around in '63.

As far as his autograph signing manners, I guess I have heard far too many horror stories going back to the late 1980s for me to cut him any slack. It was bad enough that I sold most of my Willie Mays cards. I should of held on to them, as I would have made some decent money, but I made top dollar for the time, and that was fine by me. True, there are lousy people who are not nice about getting their autograph from an athlete. For quite some time now, show promoters and their minions have carefully culled crazies from the line to Mr. Mays. Yet time after time, Willie kept being true to himself, and embarrassed everybody by his rude behavior. Who was he going to listen to if someone got in his face about it? He thought he was above everybody, and entitled to act any way he wanted because he was Willie Mays. Again, the little boy within a collector's heart has been murdered by Mays so often it would fill, proverbially, the largest graveyard.

Years ago someone wrote some good advice. If you're a Mays fan, collect all you want, but don't risk going to a show to meet him and get his autograph.

Probably too much said. Sorry.

Just part of the hot stove league of discussion.

Have a great week, bro. Seriously. Keep enjoying the hobby.

--Brian Powell

Last edited by brian1961; 05-09-2017 at 11:27 AM.
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  #7  
Old 05-09-2017, 03:10 PM
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Dustin
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Thanks Brian ! It's never to much lol. I personally have never met Willie Mays.
I also heard about him being rude and unreasonable at times. Also if being rude stops you from winning MVPs I can't explain Barry Bonds. I know when speaking on coulda woulda shouldas it's all a big what if.that goes for everything .

All I'm saying is I agree that Mays should have won more MVPs one or two maybe not 6 lol. As the article helps point the NL was filled with amazing talent in that era.


Side note: I've heard the same thing about Chipper jones. As far as being a jerk in person. My son loves chipper for some odd reason. ( he's five) so I want to take him to a signing when he's in town. I have feared him being a jerk when my son gets to see him. I'll sure to let you guys know if or when it happens.
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  #8  
Old 05-10-2017, 08:56 AM
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Stonepony Stonepony is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1961 View Post
Dustin,

In 1964 Ken Boyer had what amounted to his career year, helping the Cards make it to the Series. He had a lot of help with Lou Brock and Bob Gibson; but apparently to the sportswriters, Ken's performance stood out the most. Same scenario with Dick Groat in 1960. I'm sure the same was true for Orlando Cepeda in 1967, Don Newcombe in 1956, and certainly Henry Aaron in 1957. Obviously, these gents did not get their team into the World Series single-handedly. However, and this is where pure stat metrics fall short to a degree, the sportswriters who covered baseball in those given years, game by game, and who were given the right to cast their ballots for the MVP awards, had a really good handle on who was indespenseible to their team, and came through in clutch situations most often.

Being an Ernie Banks fan, I was happy he won those two years. The Cubs would have been toast without him. Sure, they had some decent players, but Ernie drove in so many runs and kept the Cubs a serious threat to any team that looked on them as a doormat. Their biggest weakness in those years was weak pitching, among other things.

Please, do not think I feel Willie was not an all-time great. He most assuredly was. The feeling in my neighborhood (Chicago suburbs) was that Willie Mays was the number one player in the NL. That's how I felt, too. You are sure right about Willie helping the Giants get to the Series in '62; he had a terrific season. Again, we have Maury Wills having his career-defining year, as well as Don Drysdale and Tommy Davis, for that matter. Sandy Koufax's late season finger problem hurt them badly. Obviously, he turned that around in '63.

As far as his autograph signing manners, I guess I have heard far too many horror stories going back to the late 1980s for me to cut him any slack. It was bad enough that I sold most of my Willie Mays cards. I should of held on to them, as I would have made some decent money, but I made top dollar for the time, and that was fine by me. True, there are lousy people who are not nice about getting their autograph from an athlete. For quite some time now, show promoters and their minions have carefully culled crazies from the line to Mr. Mays. Yet time after time, Willie kept being true to himself, and embarrassed everybody by his rude behavior. Who was he going to listen to if someone got in his face about it? He thought he was above everybody, and entitled to act any way he wanted because he was Willie Mays. Again, the little boy within a collector's heart has been murdered by Mays so often it would fill, proverbially, the largest graveyard.

Years ago someone wrote some good advice. If you're a Mays fan, collect all you want, but don't risk going to a show to meet him and get his autograph.

Probably too much said. Sorry.

Just part of the hot stove league of discussion.

Have a great week, bro. Seriously. Keep enjoying the hobby.

--Brian Powell
Because, as a young kid at an early 80s card show, I witnessed this surly prick repeatedly disrespect admirers and fans, I'll never own one of his cards ( sighh.. except his 51B at part of my set)

Last edited by Stonepony; 05-10-2017 at 08:57 AM.
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  #9  
Old 05-10-2017, 04:11 PM
JTysver JTysver is offline
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Who cares. He doesn't have an obligation to anyone, nor does any player. I'd imagine if you can't walk a street anywhere without people bothering you, you'd become pretty surly also.
I have met him before. Nothing spectacular, and also nothing disheartening. He was just signing as a matter of business.
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  #10  
Old 05-10-2017, 04:30 PM
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Stonepony Stonepony is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTysver View Post
Who cares. He doesn't have an obligation to anyone, nor does any player. I'd imagine if you can't walk a street anywhere without people bothering you, you'd become pretty surly also.
I have met him before. Nothing spectacular, and also nothing disheartening. He was just signing as a matter of business.
I cared.
Respect and integrity mean a lot to me.
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