NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-20-2018, 02:52 PM
clydepepper's Avatar
clydepepper clydepepper is offline
Raymond Culpepper
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 4,331
Default WAR Question:

Mike Trout has a 3.9, while Mookie Betts is at 3.6. Of those totals, Trout has 0.9 for his defense, while Betts gets only 0.3 - yet neither has an error yet. The Range Factor Stats (which are VERY foreign to me) do not appear to make much of a difference.

Does it just mean that Betts has better replacements than Trout? If both are full-time players, how do they measure that?

I need someone who is fluent in WAR to explain the big difference.
__________________
.
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson


MY BIG CONCERNS ABOUT AMERICA:

Internally- We spend too much time assuring our rights without learning the responsibilities that should accompany them.
Externally - No matter how much we claim to take the higher moral ground, we have neither respected nor attempted to understand other cultures.

Last edited by clydepepper; 05-20-2018 at 02:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-20-2018, 03:44 PM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is online now
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 3,374
Default

I'd guess the difference is that Betts plays RF and Trout plays CF and has more overall chances and likely covers more ground due to his position.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-20-2018, 05:04 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,869
Default

I think WAR is a conspiracy invented by someone heavily invested in Trout cards.
__________________
Buy high, sell low.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-20-2018, 05:33 PM
clydepepper's Avatar
clydepepper clydepepper is offline
Raymond Culpepper
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 4,331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I think WAR is a conspiracy invented by someone heavily invested in Trout cards.

That's certainly what I'd Betts on it.
__________________
.
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson


MY BIG CONCERNS ABOUT AMERICA:

Internally- We spend too much time assuring our rights without learning the responsibilities that should accompany them.
Externally - No matter how much we claim to take the higher moral ground, we have neither respected nor attempted to understand other cultures.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-20-2018, 05:37 PM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is online now
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 3,374
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I think WAR is a conspiracy invented by someone heavily invested in Trout cards.

LOL, it's crossed my mind before.

The guy is obviously a great player, but sometimes it seems like he just sneezes and his WAR goes up somehow.

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-20-2018, 06:20 PM
nat's Avatar
nat nat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 455
Default

That Trout is a CF and Betts is a RF is part of the difference. (Two runs worth.) Most of the difference in defensive ability these days is based in a player's range. Errors are so rare that they don't make much difference. So far this year Trout has been a better fielder than Betts. His defense has saved about three runs more than Betts' has. (To find this look for Rfield on a player's baseball-reference page.)

But also, remember that 0.6 WAR is not much of a difference, and that it's early enough in the season that our final defensive numbers will likely look very different than these.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-20-2018, 07:37 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,869
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
LOL, it's crossed my mind before.

The guy is obviously a great player, but sometimes it seems like he just sneezes and his WAR goes up somehow.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...espnapi_public

Please.
__________________
Buy high, sell low.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-20-2018, 07:51 PM
nat's Avatar
nat nat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 455
Default

The article isn't saying they think he's going to do it. Not even Trout's mom thinks he's going to do it. Just that he's on pace for it. Being on pace for the greatest season of all time after 40 games is hard, staying on that pace for the next 120 is much much harder. Ruth pulled it off, Trout probably won't.

But the article is celebrating Trout for managing this pace for even 40 games, which is an achievement all on its own.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-02-2018, 06:35 AM
the 'stache's Avatar
the 'stache the 'stache is offline
Bill Gregory
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Posts: 3,698
Default

By the way, Grich has the 8th best JAWS (compiled by combining career and 7 year peak WAR totals) of any second baseman, better than Ryne Sandberg, Roberto Alomar, and Craig Biggio (all Hall of Famers). It's also better than Lou Whitaker's (a man many think is Cooperstown bound). Grich's JAWS is 58.7. Whitaker's is 56.5.

Then, there's this:

Average for the twenty Hall of Fame second basemen:
69.5 career WAR, 44.5 seven year peak, 57 JAWS

Bobby Grich:
71.1 career WAR, 46.4 seven year peak, 58.7 JAWS

Discussion of his Hall worthiness is not that far fetched. He certainly deserved more consideration than he got by Hall voters his one time on the ballot.
__________________
Building these sets: T206, 1953 Bowman Color, 1975 Topps.

Great transactions with: piedmont150, Cardboard Junkie, z28jd, t206blogcom, tinkertoeverstochance, trobba, Texxxx, marcdelpercio, t206hound, zachs, tolstoi, IronHorse 2130, AndyG09, BBT206, jtschantz, lug-nut, leaflover, Abravefan11, mpemulis, btcarfagno, BlueSky, and Frankbmd.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-08-2018, 10:30 AM
the 'stache's Avatar
the 'stache the 'stache is offline
Bill Gregory
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Posts: 3,698
Default

Just saw this.

Mike Trout's career WAR is 59.6 in the equivalent of six seasons (6.10 to be precise, 988 games).

He has already passed Yogi Berra, a three time MVP winner who also played a premium position, catcher. He was both a strong offensive and defensive catcher. Per BBR, Berra was worth 59.4 WAR. Fangraphs has Trout at 60 WAR. Fangraphs has Berra at 63.7. That still seems off to me.

I don't care how good Mike Trout is. Something is rotten in Denmark when Mike Trout in 988 games is more valuable than Yogi Berra in 2,120 games.
__________________
Building these sets: T206, 1953 Bowman Color, 1975 Topps.

Great transactions with: piedmont150, Cardboard Junkie, z28jd, t206blogcom, tinkertoeverstochance, trobba, Texxxx, marcdelpercio, t206hound, zachs, tolstoi, IronHorse 2130, AndyG09, BBT206, jtschantz, lug-nut, leaflover, Abravefan11, mpemulis, btcarfagno, BlueSky, and Frankbmd.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hobby question bowman and topps question 1950 to 1953 Bigdah Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 9 12-20-2016 07:55 PM
1955 Topps Trivia Question - Updated with Question #2 toppcat Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 9 01-03-2012 08:51 PM
SGC grading question (possible dumb question) Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 6 09-08-2006 01:36 AM
Player question & a set question Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 4 11-13-2004 07:41 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:46 PM.


ebay GSB