NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-14-2018, 10:42 PM
brianp-beme's Avatar
brianp-beme brianp-beme is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,188
Default How trimmed can a card be and still be graded Near Mint?

I have refrained from posting this type of thread in the past, but I collect E220 National Caramel cards and it struck me as so, so wrong. The cuts on E220 cards are about the worse I have seen on a non-strip issue (which makes you wonder if maybe the set was partially produced in strip form or as a sheet...see scan below for an idea of their sloppy production). It is therefore sometimes difficult to determine what a normal full size card is, but this example has narrow borders on all four sides and it grades as Near Mint? A little card knowledge goes a long way, TPG folks.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1921-E220-N...cAAOSwQO9a8397

Brian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg e220misfits010.jpg (78.1 KB, 678 views)

Last edited by brianp-beme; 09-15-2018 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Thread given a sexy title, and for good reason
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-15-2018, 07:18 AM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,268
Default

wow that card is ridiculously trimmed.
__________________
Great experience buying from edjs and mybuddyinc. Check out my ebay store, weird, eclectic, accurate, and reasonable! http://stores.ebay.com/Aquarian-Sports-Cards Also check out http://www.birminghamauctioneers.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-15-2018, 12:54 PM
brianp-beme's Avatar
brianp-beme brianp-beme is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,188
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
wow that card is ridiculously trimmed.
Agreed. The Groh card I showed should give you an idea of what the approximate border widths should be. Here are scans of cards (not mine) that I think are what decently cut E220 cards should look like (ones cut this nice and well centered are very tough to come by, and the Hoyt still looks trimmed):

Brian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1921-1923-e220-national-caramel-collection.jpg (48.0 KB, 564 views)
File Type: jpg E220ruthie.jpg (7.1 KB, 559 views)
File Type: jpg e220judgeforyourself.jpg (75.0 KB, 531 views)

Last edited by brianp-beme; 09-15-2018 at 01:26 PM. Reason: added scans
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-15-2018, 01:24 PM
Luke's Avatar
Luke Luke is offline
Luke Lyon
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,786
Default

Yikes.
__________________
ThatT206Life.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-15-2018, 01:42 PM
bigfish bigfish is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,081
Default E220

Is there ANY chance itís factory cut?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-15-2018, 01:50 PM
brianp-beme's Avatar
brianp-beme brianp-beme is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,188
Default

Knowing how horribly cut the E220 cards are, yes. But it seems like it would then not meet minimum size requirements for grading.

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-15-2018, 01:56 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 4,092
Default

Ancient flip number. Graded at least 10 years ago. PSA says the set should be 2Ē x 3-1/4Ē.
https://www.psacard.com/cardfacts/ba...amel-e220/1945
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-15-2018, 02:44 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,268
Default

I own and have owned a bunch of E220's I'd say almost no chance that's a funky factory cut. Plus the cuts look slightly concave to me resulting in "bat-ear" corners.
__________________
Great experience buying from edjs and mybuddyinc. Check out my ebay store, weird, eclectic, accurate, and reasonable! http://stores.ebay.com/Aquarian-Sports-Cards Also check out http://www.birminghamauctioneers.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-15-2018, 03:15 PM
ronniehatesjazz's Avatar
ronniehatesjazz ronniehatesjazz is offline
Tyler Smith
Tyler Sm.ith
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 656
Default

What in the world is Heinie Groh holding? Is that some type of old school fungo bat?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-15-2018, 03:20 PM
riggs336 riggs336 is offline
�tis J�hns�n
member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 57
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz View Post
What in the world is Heinie Groh holding? Is that some type of old school fungo bat?
We used to call those "bottle bats", but we were young and not very smart.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-15-2018, 04:16 PM
brianp-beme's Avatar
brianp-beme brianp-beme is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,188
Default

That was the style of bat that Heinie Groh used and is one of his claims to fame, and like was mentioned it was referred to as a 'bottle' bat. His E220 card has a great image of it.

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-15-2018, 05:01 PM
trdcrdkid's Avatar
trdcrdkid trdcrdkid is offline
David Kathman
member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz View Post
What in the world is Heinie Groh holding? Is that some type of old school fungo bat?
Itís a bottle bat. Groh was well known for using them.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-15-2018, 05:06 PM
Rookiemonster's Avatar
Rookiemonster Rookiemonster is offline
Dustin
Dustin Mar.ino
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Nj
Posts: 1,361
Default

There use to be a guy at the local card show that had a binder full of theses . I bought two. All were trimmed to complete borderless cards. Just the bottom remained with the name and team.

Also never seen a bottle bat. Is it still legal ? If not when and why was it taken away.
__________________
Just a collector that likes to talk and read about the Hobby. 🤓👍🏼
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-15-2018, 05:12 PM
trdcrdkid's Avatar
trdcrdkid trdcrdkid is offline
David Kathman
member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,271
Default

Hereís my one E220, which is unusually well-centered for the issue. It has much bigger borders than the trimmed one.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-15-2018, 05:38 PM
brianp-beme's Avatar
brianp-beme brianp-beme is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,188
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookiemonster View Post
There use to be a guy at the local card show that had a binder full of theses . I bought two. All were trimmed to complete borderless cards. Just the bottom remained with the name and team.
Perhaps they look like this or more likely cut inside the lined image border. I have seen a lot that were cut down in similar fashion.

Brian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg e220wilson133.jpg (70.1 KB, 260 views)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-15-2018, 06:21 PM
Fred's Avatar
Fred Fred is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,601
Default

Find any T206 card in a PSA holder that says "Hall Collection".
__________________
doh, doh, doh, doh....
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-15-2018, 07:27 PM
Rhotchkiss's Avatar
Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,503
Default

That is a real bad mistake. I am glad there are places like net54 where that stuff gets pointed out. Thanks Brian (not that I was after that card, but still good to know). I know very little about E220s, in fact this is the only one I have ever owned, but I thought it was very well centered for what I have seen of E220 (sorry for the side-pic, thatís what happens when a techno-idiot uploads a pic off the phone)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 33330520-6849-4F41-ABBC-A1D0048247FF.jpg (19.3 KB, 235 views)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-15-2018, 07:41 PM
yanksfan09's Avatar
yanksfan09 yanksfan09 is offline
_Er!ck*L.ew1n_
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 1,566
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianp-beme View Post
That was the style of bat that Heinie Groh used and is one of his claims to fame, and like was mentioned it was referred to as a 'bottle' bat. His E220 card has a great image of it.

Brian
Same image also found in 1921 Exhibits
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 26841862005_69591aa3e7_z.jpg (42.9 KB, 231 views)
__________________
Er1ck.L. ---D381 seeker http://www.flickr.com/photos/30236659@N04/sets/
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-15-2018, 08:07 PM
brianp-beme's Avatar
brianp-beme brianp-beme is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,188
Default

Here is another photo with Heinie and his bottle bat.

Brian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg grohbottlebat.jpg (47.3 KB, 226 views)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-19-2018, 10:40 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 27,604
Default

C'mon, don't ya' know? The one in the link is the mini-border variety. And a miscut Wheat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianp-beme View Post
I have refrained from posting this type of thread in the past, but I collect E220 National Caramel cards and it struck me as so, so wrong. The cuts on E220 cards are about the worse I have seen on a non-strip issue (which makes you wonder if maybe the set was partially produced in strip form or as a sheet...see scan below for an idea of their sloppy production). It is therefore sometimes difficult to determine what a normal full size card is, but this example has narrow borders on all four sides and it grades as Near Mint? A little card knowledge goes a long way, TPG folks.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1921-E220-N...cAAOSwQO9a8397

Brian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pe220wheat.jpg (75.8 KB, 120 views)
__________________
Leon Luckey

Last edited by Leon; 09-19-2018 at 10:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:07 AM
GasHouseGang's Avatar
GasHouseGang GasHouseGang is offline
David M.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: S. California
Posts: 1,401
Default

It's hard to believe all of those terrible cuts are from "factory" cutting. Seems more likely to be made like this...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Scissor-Cutting.jpg (74.2 KB, 112 views)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-19-2018, 12:18 PM
scooter729's Avatar
scooter729 scooter729 is offline
Scott S
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Boston area
Posts: 2,048
Default

The original PSA 7 card in this thread was part of a lot I won in a Goodwin auction in 2014. That card was not pictured in the lot; when I received it, I was unhappy at the obvious trim, and had to return the entire lot as my only option (though I wanted other cards from the group).

It should be obvious to anyone that the card is trimmed, and should be sent back to PSA to get it out of circulation in that case.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
centering (another stupid grading thread) darwinbulldog Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 5 07-29-2017 12:09 PM
Card Grading vs. Autograph Grading scooter729 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 9 08-20-2014 01:52 PM
Yet another 14 CJ thread. Question regarding staining and grading. btcarfagno Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 7 08-18-2014 06:53 AM
Is there a grading thread? 67_Palmer Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 20 06-25-2013 07:28 PM
Mint Grading, or is it the grading of mints? brianp-beme Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 10-30-2010 10:11 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:33 PM.


ebay GSB