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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used > Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports

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  #1  
Old 03-04-2019, 09:16 PM
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Michael I.
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Default Just picked up this John Hancock

I just picked this one up what do you guys think? It is a hand written and signed bill of lading from 1766 when Hancock and his uncle ran their shipping buisiness together. I have seen several of these over the years and never could get on at a price I was willing to pay. I need to get it framed out but really signature looks nice for 250 years or so old.
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  #2  
Old 03-05-2019, 05:44 AM
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Robert J. Miller
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This is the kind of stuff that amazes me that it is still around after all these years. Very nice item. Thanks for sharing.
Robert
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  #3  
Old 03-05-2019, 09:19 AM
packs packs is offline
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No expert in historical documents but to me it looks like everything is written out in the same hand. I don't think there are signatures from multiple people on that document.
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Old 03-05-2019, 06:17 PM
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Michael I.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
No expert in historical documents but to me it looks like everything is written out in the same hand. I don't think there are signatures from multiple people on that document.
Yeah these were completly written by Hancock when he ran his uncles shipping business in Boston. As far as Hancock items go yes surprisingly enough they are still out there.

Last edited by w7imel; 03-05-2019 at 06:19 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-05-2019, 10:02 PM
Michael B Michael B is offline
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No expert in historical documents but to me it looks like everything is written out in the same hand. I don't think there are signatures from multiple people on that document.
People are used to seeing the fancy script signature that he used to sign official documents. This does look like his regular signature which was much simpler.
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:13 AM
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I only meant that I thought either the whole thing was filled out by Hancock or the whole thing was filled out by Freeman. Glad it's Hancock.
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2019, 05:08 PM
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Michael I.
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Quote:
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I only meant that I thought either the whole thing was filled out by Hancock or the whole thing was filled out by Freeman. Glad it's Hancock.
Hancock didnt develope his more flamboyant style until a few years later when he was more of a public figure and in official offices. This is more like his Rookie signature...
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Old 03-06-2019, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by w7imel View Post
Hancock didnt develope his more flamboyant style until a few years later when he was more of a public figure and in official offices. This is more like his Rookie signature...
Michael, that is an awesome piece to own.

Congratulations!!!
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  #9  
Old 03-06-2019, 06:27 PM
packs packs is offline
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What does paper that old feel like? Sometimes that's my favorite thing about antiquities. The way they feel and smell.
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  #10  
Old 03-06-2019, 07:14 PM
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[quote=packs;1860547]What does paper that old feel like? Sometimes that's my favorite thing about antiquities. The way they feel and smell.[/QU

Honestly I just recieved it today and I am scared to touch it. Debating on weather I should frame it or send it to PSA to encapsulate. I have seen several of these over the years encapsulated by them for protection. Anyone have a sugestion on how I should protect/display on occasion???
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  #11  
Old 03-06-2019, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
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Michael, that is an awesome piece to own.

Congratulations!!!
Thanks Chris!!! I really am happy about it
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Old 03-06-2019, 09:14 PM
Michael B Michael B is offline
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[quote=w7imel;1860556]
Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
What does paper that old feel like? Sometimes that's my favorite thing about antiquities. The way they feel and smell.[/QU

Honestly I just recieved it today and I am scared to touch it. Debating on weather I should frame it or send it to PSA to encapsulate. I have seen several of these over the years encapsulated by them for protection. Anyone have a sugestion on how I should protect/display on occasion???
I would NOT encapsulate this in one of their plastic tombs. If I were to encase it in anything it would be in mylar. It is something you could do yourself but if you are not comfortable with that I would guess that a professional restorer would be able to do it for you. If you wish to read about using mylar you could probably visit the website of University Products or Light Impressions. Both companies produce products for archival storage and sell great products that I have used.
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Old 03-06-2019, 09:38 PM
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Nice piece. I showed one of these in 2015 and a few here thought that mine was not in the hand of Hancock but rather the person listed at the bottom. When comparing to yours, I think it's fairly obvious that yours and mine were done by the same person (see the descriptions of the pott ash, of the shipper, of Harrison Barnard, and the date at the bottom particularly the 17). So unless Jon Freeman, the master on yours, and James Scott, the master on mine, (who the consensus said filled out the whole document on mine) was the same peep , I think we did ok.

I did end up having mine slabbed too by Beckett/JSA, looks pretty nice in the slab. I don't have it at this house so I can't take a pic but if I find any on my phone I'll post it so you can see what it looks like in the slab.

Mike
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Last edited by thenavarro; 03-06-2019 at 09:44 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-06-2019, 09:48 PM
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and here's the thread from 2015 if you want to take a gander,

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=202457
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  #15  
Old 03-06-2019, 09:54 PM
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Michael I.
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Thanks!!! I think I see the direction I want to go!!!
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  #16  
Old 03-07-2019, 08:10 AM
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I store my Houdini letter in mylar to keep it from getting brittle. It's worked out for me but my letter's only 100 years old haha.
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  #17  
Old 03-07-2019, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenavarro View Post
Nice piece. I showed one of these in 2015 and a few here thought that mine was not in the hand of Hancock but rather the person listed at the bottom. When comparing to yours, I think it's fairly obvious that yours and mine were done by the same person (see the descriptions of the pott ash, of the shipper, of Harrison Barnard, and the date at the bottom particularly the 17). So unless Jon Freeman, the master on yours, and James Scott, the master on mine, (who the consensus said filled out the whole document on mine) was the same peep , I think we did ok.

I did end up having mine slabbed too by Beckett/JSA, looks pretty nice in the slab. I don't have it at this house so I can't take a pic but if I find any on my phone I'll post it so you can see what it looks like in the slab.

Mike
Mike, sometimes it's like reading code getting through one of these threads. But it's good that guys like you and Chris added some validity to it. Mike deserves that after landing a nice piece like this.
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  #18  
Old 03-07-2019, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenavarro View Post
Nice piece. I showed one of these in 2015 and a few here thought that mine was not in the hand of Hancock but rather the person listed at the bottom. When comparing to yours, I think it's fairly obvious that yours and mine were done by the same person (see the descriptions of the pott ash, of the shipper, of Harrison Barnard, and the date at the bottom particularly the 17). So unless Jon Freeman, the master on yours, and James Scott, the master on mine, (who the consensus said filled out the whole document on mine) was the same peep , I think we did ok.

I did end up having mine slabbed too by Beckett/JSA, looks pretty nice in the slab. I don't have it at this house so I can't take a pic but if I find any on my phone I'll post it so you can see what it looks like in the slab.

Mike
Mike did you go back and re-read the posts? I was all over the post. It was that post that made me want to get one of these. Yes I want to see it for sure. Do you display it or keep it tucked away?
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:55 PM
thenavarro thenavarro is offline
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Michael, I don't currently have it on display, but I do display it occasionally. I have limited room so I tend to rotate pieces for display. My wife doesn't mind me having one room dedicated to autographs so I don't push my luck with overflow lol.

I'm not adverse to displaying "old" pieces. I bought them for myself, not to preserve for someone I don't know 200 years from now. I do have blackout curtains in the room though to keep out the sunlight.

Heck, I currently have on display a signed document from 1492 signed by Ferdinand and Isabella slabbed up, and it works itself through the rotation just like the rest of my stuff and none of them look worse for wear.

I'll try to run by my bank safe deposit box within a week and get the Hancock out and take some pics for you to show you what it looks like in a slab.

Yep, I remembered you defending my piece in that old thread from 2015, thank you, that's why I posted in yours.

It was pointless for me to try to defend mine back then as individuals already had their mind made up, and I didn't feel compelled to respond as I really didn't have the time to play on the boards much between law school at night and work during the day. Arguing with people was not the way I wanted to spend my few minutes I had to browse and look so I just let it be.

Enjoy your piece, I'll post some pics within a week provided I have the chance to run by there. I have a slew of cases on the court docket for March 18 so I MIGHT not get a chance to run by until after that, but I will try

Mike
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Old 03-09-2019, 04:21 PM
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Here's a poor quality pic I had saved on my hard drive.
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  #21  
Old 03-09-2019, 04:57 PM
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Pretty awesome looking!! I took mine today to a well respected historical document framer in Indy. I decided on a simple 1 1/4" inch mat border with a nice looking blueish gray frame. He had examples of some museum glass that is 99% UV blocking but he said it was 3 times the price of other UV glass. He had a sample box of sorts set up and the museum glass was virtually impossible too see..At first I had to touch it to even tell if there was glass there it was pretty cool. The price difference for a piece this size IMO was worth is..The Regular 99% UV would have been 10 bucks and the museum stuff was 35. I opted for the museum grade. whole project should be done in 3 weeks he said.
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Old 03-09-2019, 05:02 PM
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Cool. Post a pic when done.
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Old 03-09-2019, 05:13 PM
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Michael I.
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I will for sure. Hey here is just a quick one paragraph note John sent out 3 July 1776. Signatures look pretty spot on I would say. Oh by the way its only going for 55K

https://www.raabcollection.com/ameri...ck-july-3-1776
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Last edited by w7imel; 03-09-2019 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 03-09-2019, 05:59 PM
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Picture of the museum glass 99% UV display as opposed to regular 99 percent UV. Picture not best but you see my point.
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  #25  
Old 03-09-2019, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenavarro View Post
Nice piece. I showed one of these in 2015 and a few here thought that mine was not in the hand of Hancock but rather the person listed at the bottom. When comparing to yours, I think it's fairly obvious that yours and mine were done by the same person (see the descriptions of the pott ash, of the shipper, of Harrison Barnard, and the date at the bottom particularly the 17). So unless Jon Freeman, the master on yours, and James Scott, the master on mine, (who the consensus said filled out the whole document on mine) was the same peep , I think we did ok.

I did end up having mine slabbed too by Beckett/JSA, looks pretty nice in the slab. I don't have it at this house so I can't take a pic but if I find any on my phone I'll post it so you can see what it looks like in the slab.

Mike
The ship on your manifest was named after his Uncle Thomas wife Lydia.
Here is a nice article about the historic significance of that ship...Pretty cool you own such a documented historical piece of our American history!!!

http://www.newenglandhistoricalsocie...starts-a-riot/

Last edited by w7imel; 03-09-2019 at 07:42 PM.
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