NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-13-2012, 02:30 PM
scooter729's Avatar
scooter729 scooter729 is offline
Scott S
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Boston area
Posts: 1,833
Default 1958 Topps Hank Aaron - BLUE background??

Hi guys, posting this one on behalf of a friend who's not a member....

He recently picked up the pictured 1958 Topps Hank Aaron card. Typically the card has two variations - white letters or yellow letters for his name. However, in both cases, the card's background is GREEN.

In my friend's variation, the name is white, but the entire background is BLUE! I have never seen a version like this.

Has anyone ever seen anything similar on a '58 card, Aaron or otherwise? The card definitely seems legit, so maybe there is a version where along with the yellow missing from the name, it's missing from the run to make the green color (since yellow + blue = green, so no yellow would just be a blue background).

Would love to hear some thoughts on this one. Pictured is the standard card along with the blue background variation. This isn't just a scanner issue or something - this is really how the blue background card appears....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg aaron.jpg (76.1 KB, 795 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-13-2012, 02:34 PM
CobbSpikedMe's Avatar
CobbSpikedMe CobbSpikedMe is offline
Andy H.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Belle Mead, NJ
Posts: 602
Default

It looks like the card simply missed the entire yellow print pass since all the yellow is missing from it. I don't think it would be a variation to chase or anything, but it is pretty cool all the same.

Best,

AndyH


.
__________________
I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar.

The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here
My Online Trading Site: Click Here
Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-13-2012, 03:38 PM
pclpads pclpads is offline
Dave Foster
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: left coast
Posts: 666
Default

Hit the search button. There was an extenisve thread about 2 years ago on this. I think Doug Goodman contributed a lot of info.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-13-2012, 04:26 PM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 5,068
Default Blue Aaron

This is the second appearance here for this card. He shows up in a prior thread thanks to Doug. Doug will be pleased to know his card has company. I have a similar blue Mays from 1966. Could be a print defect. Could be a sunlight issue
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-13-2012, 07:29 PM
scooter729's Avatar
scooter729 scooter729 is offline
Scott S
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Boston area
Posts: 1,833
Default

Thanks guys - my cursory search didn't return any results on this, so thanks for mentioning. Here is an old thread on the same topic:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=133119

I think this begs the question though: why ISN'T this a recognized variation? If cards like the "Herrer" from the '58 set or the Gene Bakep in '57 can be recognized variations, then why not a significant issue (not a print dot) like a totally different colored background be considered and recognized as a variation?

I'd love to hear from others - we now have at least three of these Aaron cards like this, and I'm sure there are more - what is enough to constitute a variation, if the answer is not three?

Last edited by scooter729; 12-13-2012 at 07:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-13-2012, 08:33 PM
Harliduck's Avatar
Harliduck Harliduck is offline
John O
J0hn Ot.to
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Marysville, Wa
Posts: 574
Default

Here is one on Ebay right now...and no one bidding. Interesting read from the link, pretty cool.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Topps-3...item5899a88197

The seller has no idea it might be special...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-14-2012, 08:43 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 5,068
Default Variations

The Herrer and Bakep were recognized as variations years ago before the days of ebay scans which have revealed hundreds of similar print defects, front and back, in virtually every baseball card set. I think similar print defects now normally get very little recognition. But there are exceptions, usually the result of someone being persistent.

My source for getting variants recognized used to be Bob Lemke at SCD, who has now retired, and over time, with the proliferation of additional "finds" on ebay, Bob's definition of what he would list in SCD got more restrictive. He even took many prior listed variations out of the book. Border gaps come to mind. I do not think the Herrer or Bakep, or maybe even the Campos black star would make the cut today. But they are now part of hobby history.

On the other hand, PSA has now recognized in slabs and in their master registry list for 1961 Topops a Ron Fairly card with an errant green print
smudge on the back of the card within the baseball. This print defect exist on other 1961 Topps cards as well...but so far not recognized.

If one's definition of a variation of a variation is a card that the producer intentionally changed for some reason, such as the Topps 1958 option/trade or not cards, then none of these print defects would make the cut. But no one definition prevails out there.

I think there has been some doubt on the Aaron as to whether it was a defect in a print run, which would lead to a small number of them out there, or was caused by sunlight fading. Finding more of them lends to it being a print defect, but not necessarily a variation...again depending on your ( or someone's) definition.

Print defects are endless out there

Still, if PSA is going to recognize the Fairly as a variation, the door seems wide open. Maybe you should submit it along with information on other examples form threads like this and see what they do.





[IMG][/IMG]








Last edited by ALR-bishop; 12-14-2012 at 08:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-14-2012, 11:18 AM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 4,285
Default

I like that 69 rookie stars card!

Some of the variations that are recognized are indeed just printing mistakes.
And there are some that aren't recognized that are differences on the printing plate. Some from damage, some from mistakes in making the plate.
That's how I define a variation, a difference caused by the plate being different. There aren't many people that go with that for good reason. With the access to the internet images a vast number of differences get noticed. Unfortunately, lots of the ones listed on Ebay are just transient print defects. And that added to how inconsequential most of the actual ones are makes collecting them seem silly to many collectors.
The Thomas NNOF is a mistake in making the plate, somewhere along the line a chunk of debris got between the mask (negative) and the plate causing missing areas.

The top two cards could be similar, or might just be cards where a bit of paper or something got into the press and blocked the black layer.

I'm working at typing up a list of variations for 81 topps. Nearly all of them really trivial, but actual plate differences. (I had lots of time, and about 15 thousand of the things to look through. )

The Blue Aarons might be fading, but usually either the red goes first or the colors fade a bit more evenly. If they're not fading then it's just a missing color. A nice and really interesting print error, but not a variation even by my loose standards.

Steve B
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-14-2012, 11:42 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 5,068
Default Variants

I have a lot of respect for Steve's opinions on this stuff., although I lean to defining true variations as cards the producer intentionally changed, even though I tend to collect any significant or interesting print defects as well

Here is something similar to the blue Aaron in a 66 Mays. It would be helpful to see the back of the Aaron as well



Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-14-2012, 02:35 PM
doug.goodman doug.goodman is offline
Doug Goodman
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On tour somewhere
Posts: 1,798
Default

Here are front and back scans of all three variations, you will note that there is no color variation on the back like there is on the 66 Mays.

I actually have two of these Aaron blue background cards, and the other one is the same, with no back color variation.

I do not believe them to be sun faded.

They pop up fairly often on ebay.

Doug


PS - my definition of a "variation" involves printing different cards using purposely different printing plates. The the 52 Mantle stitching differences and the 63 cropping variations qualify, but the 58 Herrera and 90 Thomas do not. Using my own definition, the 58 blue background Aaron does not qualify, it is nothing more than a huge print dot, but I still like it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 58T-030-Aaron-variations-front.jpg (81.5 KB, 707 views)
File Type: jpg 58T-030-Aaron-variations-back.jpg (81.6 KB, 705 views)

Last edited by doug.goodman; 12-14-2012 at 02:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who Posted the 1958 Topps Aaron with Blue Background? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (Pre-WWII) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 0 05-27-2007 06:50 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:16 AM.


ebay GSB