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  #31  
Old 04-19-2017, 08:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 Reference.....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc....and, let's get your inputs

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *





This project has been a work in progress on Net54 since 2005. Additional inputs (or corrections) to these checklists are greatly appreciated.

In Jan 2011, for ease of access, I consolidated into a single thread the T206 front/back surveys which were previously conducted on Net54.
Furthermore, included is the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) and RED CROSS (T215-1) checklists, as these sets fall under the "T206 rubric" in that
they are White-Bordered, Brown-Captioned Tobacco cards printed and issued by American Lithographic within the 1909 - 1911 timeline.

And included is the Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back (issued Spring/Summer 1910), since it also conforms to the above stated T206 rubric.







T206 confirmed front/back surveys with respect to T-brand.

AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 & 460

BROAD LEAF 350 & 460

BROAD LEAF 460

CAROLINA BRIGHTS

CYCLE 350 & 460

DRUM

EL PRINCIPE de GALES

Brown HINDU

Red HINDU

LENOX

OLD MILL

PIEDMONT

POLAR BEAR

SOVEREIGN

SWEET CAPORAL

TOLSTOI

UZIT


1910 COUPON (T213-1)

1910-1912 RED CROSS (T215-1)

Ty Cobb / "TY COBB" Tobacco



TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 06-28-2017 at 11:35 PM.
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  #32  
Old 04-19-2017, 08:57 PM
Rich Falvo Rich Falvo is offline
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Thanks to Ted and all the others who contribute to these general knowledge threads. They are a very valuable resource, especially for new collectors.
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  #33  
Old 04-22-2017, 07:22 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Senator Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *



Pictured here are the 6 major T206 cards missing in Sen. Russell's near complete set


Imagine pulling a Joe Doyle Nat'l card from a Piedmont pack when you were a teenager. Or, your Dad's visit to Atlanta in 1910 acquiring a Ty Cobb/TY COBB card for you ? ?

One of the most unique T206 collections in the hobby is on display at the University of Georgia (Athens). Former Georgia Senator Richard Russell's collection of approx. 1000
tobacco cards were donated to Georgia U. in 1983 (along with Russell's historical papers).
Russell was an avid BB fan as a youngster. At the age of 13 (1910), he started smoking cigarettes (Piedmont was the available brand in his area of Georgia). He pulled 100's
of T206 cards from the packs he purchased. Furthermore, Old Mill brand was available in his home town, of which he accumulated 100's of T210 cards. His T206 set has 497
different cards. As depicted in the header illustration above, no Wagner or Plank in his collection. Not unusual, since these two gems were not marketed with Piedmont backs.
Also missing in his set (as shown) are Lajoie, Marquard, Chance, and the Magie error.
His teenage smoking habit came to an abrupt end in Fall of 1911, when his parents enrolled him into Gordon Military Institute. It is my impression that his BB card collecting
also ended at that point (judging from the fewer number of T205 cards in his collection).

For more info, you can check out this thread posted in 2008......Senator Russell's collection incl. Joe Doyle error & Ty Cobb back

And, here's the link to an excellent website regarding Russell's collection...... http://baseballcards.galib.uga.edu/about/


P.S.
In 2008, I became very interested in this story regarding Richard Russell's collection, since I acquired 40 cards (duplicates) from his original collection. A distant relative of his
had consigned approx. 200 cards (mostly T206's) to a dealer in Atlanta (who listed the cards on ebay). She was selling many of his duplicates which she had found in a box in
a desk drawer from Russell's estate. The T206's were all Piedmont 350 backs. Including 7 of them from the "Elite 11" group. I was thrilled to acquire all 7 of these rare cards.
Furthermore, I called the dealer in Atlanta and he was a wealth of information regarding the Russell collection.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 04-24-2017 at 03:26 PM. Reason: Correct typo.
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  #34  
Old 04-24-2017, 07:40 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Senator Richard Russell's unique T206 collection (continued)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *



Pictured here are the 6 major T206 cards missing in Sen. Russell's near complete set


WOW ! I am happy to see someone out in the hinterland is interested in this good stuff. I received an email from a Net54 reader who is fascinated with the Russell collection.
One of the questions he asked me...... "Which additional cards are missing from Russell's set ?"

In the above post regarding this collection, I posted 497 different PIEDMONT cards (the number mentioned in the Russell Collection website). However, I double-checked the
cards in this set and my count is 507 different cards. Listed here are the missing 17 cards......

Plank and Wagner (The PIEDMONT 150 cards of these two subjects were printed by American Lithographic, but never issued in cigarette packs).
Demmitt and O'Hara (St Louis variations) were printed only with POLAR BEAR backs. POLAR BEAR cigarettes were not marketed in Georgia (circa 1910-1911).
Magie error
Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Chance (batting)
Davy Jones
Kiernan
Lajoie (with bat)
Manning (pitching)
Marquard (portrait)
McQuillan (ball in hand)
Moriarity
Pfeister (seated)
Stark

Furthermore, Russell's T206 set approaches a master all-PIEDMONT set, since it includes most of the additional PIEDMONT 350 cards of the 150/350 series subjects.


If anyone has anymore questions regarding this set....or questions about Mr. Russell....don't be shy about asking them. I will try to answer them.


TED Z
.
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  #35  
Old 04-27-2017, 08:59 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default The Exclusive 12 (460-only series)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *



Pictured here are the 6 toughest backs that were printed on the Exclusive 12 cards

The Exclusive 12 story

Feb 2013, I posted a theory regarding 12 subjects in the 460-only series that were exclusively printed on their own sheet. I base this hypothesis on several factors. Foremost
being that these 12 subjects are the only ones in the 460-only series found with red HINDU backs. Furthermore, the availability of the Exclusive 12 with the red HINDU backs
considerably out-numbers any of the 350/460 series cards with red HINDU backs

Also,, while most of the other subjects in the 460-only series were printed with LENOX backs, the Exclusive 12 are LENOX no-prints. DITTO, regarding the PIEDMONT 460 F#42
cards. This tells us that these 12 subjects were printed in a separate press run from their other "cousins" in the 460-only series. Check-out this thread...... The Exclusive 12




Crandall (cap)
Devore
Duffy
Ford
Gandil
Geyer
Hummel
McGraw (glove at hip)
Pfeffer
Sheckard (glove)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Wheat


Illustrated here is my concept of an Exclusive 12 printed sheet....based on American Litho's 19" wide press, and a standard size 19" x 24" cardboard sheet.

.. v ............................................ 19" x 24" sheet .............................................v




More specific info and T-brand back runs regarding the Exclusive 12 group will follow in the next post.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 04-28-2017 at 01:40 PM. Reason: Correct typo.
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  #36  
Old 04-28-2017, 11:22 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,231
Default T206 Exclusive 12 (continued)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *



Pictured here are the 6 toughest backs that were printed on the Exclusive 12 cards


Exactly 13 - T206 backs were printed on each of the Exclusive 12 subjects in the 460-only series. Illustrated here is the complete run of the McGraw cards.

Needless to say, the red HINDU and UZIT are the toughest cards to find in this run. And fortunately, there were no LENOX or PIEDMONT 460 (Factory #42)
cards printed in this group. Incidentally, this McGraw (glove) with UZIT is a brand new find.
. .
Factory #30






Factory #42...................Factory #42











Call me "nuts"....or, whatever....but, I'm having fun engaging in a long-term project to complete the back runs of the Exclusive 12 subjects. There are
156 possible permutations, I now have 123 of them. The UZIT cards are virtually impossible to find, so I don't expect to complete this mission

To date, there are only four Exclusive 12 confirmed UZIT cards......

Crandall
Geyer
McGraw
Sheckard


Stay tuned for more.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 04-29-2017 at 09:03 AM.
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  #37  
Old 04-29-2017, 01:34 AM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
Ron Kornacki
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Go for it Ted!! Your almost there. I'm only at 41 without trying and no Piedmont or Sweet Caporal's. I'm gonna have to put a little more effort into these. Thank you for all your T206 research.
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Last edited by Ronnie73; 04-29-2017 at 01:41 AM.
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  #38  
Old 04-29-2017, 07:12 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,231
Default T206 Exclusive 12 (continued)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie73 View Post
Go for it Ted!! Your almost there. I'm only at 41 without trying and no Piedmont or Sweet Caporal's. I'm gonna have to put a little more effort into these. Thank you for all your T206 research.
Hi Ron

I really appreciate your words of encouragement......Thank you.




* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *



Pictured here are the 6 toughest backs that were printed on the Exclusive 12 cards


And here's my Russ Ford back run from the Exclusive 12 group with a bit of trivia included......

Ford holds a pitching record that I'm quite certain has never been equalled. Most games WON in his rookie season (26-6) in 1910.
Furthermore, a total of 48 games won in his first two seasons.

OK, I need UZIT and EPDG to complete this 13-card run.


.





Factory #42





Factory #42



Factory #30




TED Z
.
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  #39  
Old 04-30-2017, 09:16 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 DRUM and AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame (NF) cards....perfect together

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *


HOFers in the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 NF // DRUM sub-set


Tim Cathey posted a thread in July 2010 which presented that the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame (NF) and the DRUM cards were a "matched set". Tim's exact words were:
" If a 350/460 player can be found with an American Beauty 350 No Frame back they should also be found with a Drum back and visa versa. " And, this rule has withstood the
test of time as new DRUM cards have been discovered these past 7 years. The one exception to this rule is Mullin (bat), who has not yet been confirmed with a DRUM back.
I completely expect that the Mullin / DRUM card will eventually surface. Refer to Tim's thread...... Matching set....American Beauty 350 (No Frame) and Drum

Posted in 2015, the following theory regarding the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (NF) series of 37 subjects is based on my long term experience tracking down these AB 350 cards.
Especially, the Nichols (with bat) card and the Stahl (glove) card. These 2 cards have proven to be considerably tougher to find with the AB 350NF back (and the DRUM back)
than the other 35 guys in this group. My theory suggests this group was printed in a 36-card (12 x 3) format. Nichols was in the initial print runs, while Stahl was not. Nichols
retired April 25, 1910. American Litho replaced him on their 36-card format with Jake Stahl. This theory has been proven by empirical means, and by Pop report data **

Nicholls AB 350NF POP report (SGC + PSA) is 7 cards.
Stahl AB 350NF POP report (SGC + PSA) is 8 cards.
The POP report (SGC + PSA) of any of the remaining 35 subjects in this group averages 14 cards each.

For further info on this subject refer to thread...... Theory regarding AB 350 NF printing


350-only series example
.
350/460 series example



AMERICAN BEAUTY 350NF // DRUM (37 subjects) checklist

Baker
Bender (no trees)
Burch (fielding)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Downey (bat)
Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lake (St Louis-no ball)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (with bat) *

Murphy (bat)
Nichols (bat) ..................... initial press runs
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
Stahl (glove) ..................... replaced Nichols in subsequent press runs
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (New York)
Wagner (bat on right shoulder)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)

* NOTE
Mullin (with bat) has yet to be confirmed with DRUM. I feel certain this card will eventually be discovered.


** Note
While I realize POP report data cannot be considered as absolute, I think it's fair to say that the POP data
is representative of the relative availability of certain cards with respect to other cards within that group.

TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 06-29-2017 at 09:10 AM. Reason: Correct typo.
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  #40  
Old 05-01-2017, 01:11 AM
Luke's Avatar
Luke Luke is offline
Luke Lyon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Posted in 2015, the following theory regarding the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (NF) series of 37 subjects is based on my long term experience tracking down these AB 350 cards.
Especially, the Nicholls (with bat) card and the Stahl (glove) card. These 2 cards have proven to be considerably tougher to find with the AB 350NF back (and the DRUM back)
than the other 35 guys in this group. My theory suggests this group was printed in a 36-card (12 x 3) format. Nicholls was in the initial print runs, while Stahl was not. Nicholls
retired April 25, 1910. American Litho replaced him on their 36-card format with Jake Stahl. This theory has been proven by empirical means, and by Pop report data **

Nicholls AB 350NF POP report (SGC + PSA) is 7 cards.
Stahl AB 350NF POP report (SGC + PSA) is 8 cards.
The POP report (SGC + PSA) of any of the remaining 35 subjects in this group averages 14 cards each.

Ted the combined Pops for Nichols and Stahl are:

Nichols 13 (PSA-9 & SGC -4)

Stahl 14 (PSA-7 & SGC-7)

Not trying to shoot your idea down. I just recently wrote an article about this subset and looked at the Pops for all 37 cards, so I remembered that neither of these cards were in the single digits.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg AB 350 comparisons.jpg (70.8 KB, 455 views)
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