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  #1  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:32 PM
russkcpa russkcpa is offline
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Default Say what you want about PWCC.................

I am a long time Ebay seller with over 2,000 feedbacks and 100% positive FB rating. Here's my 1956 Mantle SGC 92 8.5 (old holder) I sold not long ago on Ebay for $8,700 and here's the 1956 Mantle SGC 8.5 (new holder) that was just sold on Ebay by PWCC for $15,656 (just by slapping a little HE sticker on the card)
I also sold a 1956 Mantle PSA 8.5 not long ago through another auction house for a disappointing $9,500 before the 20% BP
I'm consigning future high end items to P WCC where buyers don't pay 20% BP's and I pay a reasonable consignment fee.
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File Type: jpg 1956-pwcc.jpg (77.1 KB, 1088 views)

Last edited by russkcpa; 10-17-2018 at 12:21 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:53 PM
NYYFan63 NYYFan63 is online now
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Agreed Russ. Consignors with PWCC receive a nice premium above and beyond the Consignment fee for the HE cards.


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  #3  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:10 PM
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That's why he gets my consignments. I often net more than I would have even asked in a private sale.
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  #4  
Old 10-17-2018, 08:16 AM
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Default Agreed

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Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 View Post
That's why he gets my consignments. I often net more than I would have even asked in a private sale.
I listed a well centered PSA 1.5 #149 Ruth on the BST for $1800. No takers. I sent it to PWCC and it sold for $2300. So I netted more even with their commission taken out.
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  #5  
Old 10-17-2018, 08:23 AM
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Is that the exact same card or just the exact same grade? One appears sharper than the other.
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  #6  
Old 10-17-2018, 08:43 AM
bigfish bigfish is online now
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Default Not Sherlock Holmes but....

Bobby might be onto something. The rough cut on the top border seems to have disappeared. The bottom card seems to have slightly wider left and right white borders. The corners also appear sharper. The serial numbers also don’t match. I can’t imagine SGC is deleting the old serial number and issues a new number for a reholdered card? This would destroy their pop report.

Last edited by bigfish; 10-17-2018 at 08:44 AM.
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  #7  
Old 10-17-2018, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 View Post
That's why he gets my consignments. I often net more than I would have even asked in a private sale.
All of which suggests that one is pretty much guaranteed to be paying absolute top dollar if bidding in a PWCC auction, correct ?

It's fascinating to me how their "brand" has been so well received by both buyers and sellers. People don't seem to mind paying record prices as long as it's with PWCC because somehow their auctions are considered a more true indication of the market, which, in turn, makes you feel like haven't overpaid....no matter how much you overpay.
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  #8  
Old 10-17-2018, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfish View Post
Bobby might be onto something. The rough cut on the top border seems to have disappeared. The bottom card seems to have slightly wider left and right white borders. The corners also appear sharper. The serial numbers also donít match. I canít imagine SGC is deleting the old serial number and issues a new number for a reholdered card? This would destroy their pop report.
Am I the only one that thinks the OP never implied that the two Mantles were the same card?
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  #9  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:18 AM
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they are obviously not the same card...as the 2nd one has fatter left border.
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:26 AM
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PWCC scan is awfully shiny.
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  #11  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlingfox View Post
Am I the only one that thinks the OP never implied that the two Mantles were the same card?
I read it that way too.
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:32 AM
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Well....he said "(new holder)", which could either be taken as "the card is in a new holder", or "here is my original card in a new holder".
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:25 AM
russkcpa russkcpa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
Is that the exact same card or just the exact same grade? One appears sharper than the other.
Exact same grade
Bottom card went for the higher price
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  #14  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:29 AM
russkcpa russkcpa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcv123 View Post
I read it that way too.
Just to clarify...the top card was MY SGC 8.5 that sold on Ebay for $8,700
The bottom card is a DIFFERENT SGC 8.5 that sold through PWCC for $15,656

Sorry for any confusion
BTW....re slabbed cards are given the same SN
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  #15  
Old 10-17-2018, 11:40 AM
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Well, I know we are splitting hairs here, but the PWCC high end one, DOES appear to be a bit better. Is it DOUBLE the money better? I don't think so. PWCC seems to have a cult following though, which translates into higher prices.
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  #16  
Old 10-17-2018, 01:09 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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"*Ebay for $8,700 and here's the 1956 Mantle SGC 8.5 (new holder) that was just sold on Ebay by PWCC for $15,656 (just by slapping a little HE sticker on the card)"

Apparently it was not just by slapping an HE sticker on the card, it is a different card
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  #17  
Old 10-17-2018, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAllen2556 View Post
All of which suggests that one is pretty much guaranteed to be paying absolute top dollar if bidding in a PWCC auction, correct ?
I don't necessarily believe so. I have won some auctions with PWCC, where I was at or below what I expect the card to sell at.

The high end stuff really goes, but I see some mid-grade items that are won below many asking prices on the 'bay.

I think it's an over generalization that everything they sell goes above VCP, SMR, or whatever metric you're using. I've read many posts here, where consignors did not get near what they had hoped with PWCC.

This is a pretty good price for an item I just won:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1933-World-....m43663.l44720
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  #18  
Old 10-17-2018, 02:03 PM
shagrotn77 shagrotn77 is offline
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It's amazing how the 719, 314 and 368 bidders (all 100%) have no interest in anything else on eBay from any other seller. Also, why would they bid like this? Is this how you bid when you're trying to win an auction?

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/35...p2047675.l2565
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  #19  
Old 10-17-2018, 02:31 PM
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I'll never understand why anybody would want to waste that much time bidding a couple dollars at a clip. I usually only bid once at the very end.
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  #20  
Old 10-17-2018, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlingfox View Post
Am I the only one that thinks the OP never implied that the two Mantles were the same card?
Although the OP has clarified his post, I read it assuming it was the same card in a new holder with a high end sticker added. I did not examine the cards closely enough to notice the difference.
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  #21  
Old 10-17-2018, 03:24 PM
bigfish bigfish is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 View Post
Although the OP has clarified his post, I read it assuming it was the same card in a new holder with a high end sticker added. I did not examine the cards closely enough to notice the difference.

I didn’t know it was a plug for the PWCC hi end sticker but wanted to point out that two different cards can sell for different prices based upon eye appeal.

Does anyone know the credentials or hobby experience of those giving the hi end sticker at PWCC??

I hope it’s more than they stayed at a holiday inn last night but am not sure. ��

Last edited by bigfish; 10-17-2018 at 04:35 PM.
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  #22  
Old 10-17-2018, 03:30 PM
bensie bensie is offline
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Pretty much any card I want to sell over ~$200 goes straight to PWCC. I've had cards miss with them before (in fact, I just had a couple auctions close yesterday for less than I had anticipated), but for the most part, using PWCC is a no brainer. They get better prices and deal with all the headache of listing/sending out cards.

I used to list my high end stuff with auction houses like Heritage or Goldin, but even after negotiating with them to get the commission inline with PWCC, they still don't get the same attention/pricing for my cards that PWCC does. Moving forward, I think I'm going to list even my high end cards with PWCC and forego the traditional auction houses. The other benefit of PWCC is that you can send in cards monthly. Many other auction houses only have seasonal auctions, so you're stuck waiting around.
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  #23  
Old 10-17-2018, 04:52 PM
russkcpa russkcpa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
"*Ebay for $8,700 and here's the 1956 Mantle SGC 8.5 (new holder) that was just sold on Ebay by PWCC for $15,656 (just by slapping a little HE sticker on the card)"

Apparently it was not just by slapping an HE sticker on the card, it is a different card
Yes it's a different card. Is the PWCC-HE worth $7,000 more ??
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  #24  
Old 10-17-2018, 08:26 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russkcpa View Post
Yes it's a different card. Is the PWCC-HE worth $7,000 more ??
Yes to the person that bought the card and 4-5k-6k more to any applicable underbidders...there is no way for us to know the card is HE without them telling us so its a valuable service

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 10-17-2018 at 08:27 PM.
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  #25  
Old 10-17-2018, 09:34 PM
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I was worried that we didn't have a PWCC thread up in at least a week, I'm glad we have one now.
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  #26  
Old 10-21-2018, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sycks22 View Post
I was worried that we didn't have a PWCC thread up in at least a week, I'm glad we have one now.
So you are saying you want them to be seen more? I also think they get more eyes than most because most of the rest, except for some sellers, don't offer the kind of things they do in straight auctions. Some of their realized prices on '14 Cracker Jacks (and others) looked very strong (without me doing research on it). I should say I am at least a little biased as they are the largest advertiser on our board currently and have been for 2-3 yrs running. I appreciate that. Of course I appreciate all of our advertisers and hope they get a good bang for their buck here.
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Last edited by Leon; 10-21-2018 at 12:20 PM.
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  #27  
Old 10-21-2018, 12:39 PM
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So I guess what I would say is that I'd consign the appropriate cards to PWCC but I will likely never, ever buy from them.
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  #28  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:05 PM
MR RAREBACK MR RAREBACK is offline
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I enjoy getting the auction house catalogs and bidding on them better than ebay.
Much more excitement in my opinion
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  #29  
Old 11-22-2018, 08:43 AM
Bram99 Bram99 is offline
Tony S.tins.a
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Default Say what you want about PWCC - OK, I will!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
So you are saying you want them to be seen more? I also think they get more eyes than most because most of the rest, except for some sellers, don't offer the kind of things they do in straight auctions. Some of their realized prices on '14 Cracker Jacks (and others) looked very strong (without me doing research on it). I should say I am at least a little biased as they are the largest advertiser on our board currently and have been for 2-3 yrs running. I appreciate that. Of course I appreciate all of our advertisers and hope they get a good bang for their buck here.

Ok, so here's my two cents on PWCC. I think they are losing their way. I say this based on a recent transaction on a large, fairly expensive lot of 49 Bowman PSA cards that I bought.

They do get a lot of bidders and a lot of attention to their eBay auctions. Congratulations to them. I am primarily a buyer. I have bought many single cards in the past from their eBay auctions and while I don't typically get a "deal" in the sense that the price is below market.

The recent lot I bought was this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-90-1949...72.m2749.l2649

Note that the title says "...ALL PSA6 EXMT (PWCC)".

I am working on a 49 Bowman PSA registry set, and it looked like I needed at least half of them, so I calculated a reasonable price based on all PSA 6's, considered a "volume" or common card lot discount, and I bid on the lot, thinking I could sell the rest.

After winning the lot, I found that 20 of the cards were not PSA 6. There were cards as lowly graded as PSA 4 and about 20 of the 90 were PSA 5 / 6/ 7 OC's, which most in the collecting world know get fewer bids and go for a value about 2 grades below a card graded with no qualifier.


So I went about calculating what the value difference is between what the title said, and what I got. I calculated the difference in value to be about $400 - $500, based on auction prices realized as well as SMR. I sent PWCC a message about it on eBay and their response was "sorry, there's nothing we can do other than cancel the purchase." The problem is that I did need about half of the cards for my set, so I didn't want to cancel the transaction - I wanted most of the cards. I just feel I got cheated by PWCC's error in the title of their listing. They could have agreed to do a number of things that would have made me more satisfied, like auction the OC's and ones that were less than PSA 6 for no fee, to give a credit, to pay shipping, something. Their response leaves me with an impression that they are becoming "too big for their britches", and no longer collector and customer focused. They seem to think they are now a grading company, a bank, a mutual fund index, or any number of things other than hobby / collector focused.

In the "about us" portion of their website they state:
Trading on trust: We believe trust is the bedrock of the trading card marketplace, and we handle every trade with the highest level of integrity and care. For 20 years, PWCC has worked tirelessly to provide collectors and investors the marketplace they deserve, where integrity and transparency are to be taken for granted, and investment-focused decision making can instead own the moment

I don't trust them anymore.

Tony Stinsa
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  #30  
Old 11-22-2018, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bram99 View Post
Ok, so here's my two cents on PWCC. I think they are losing their way. I say this based on a recent transaction on a large, fairly expensive lot of 49 Bowman PSA cards that I bought.

They do get a lot of bidders and a lot of attention to their eBay auctions. Congratulations to them. I am primarily a buyer. I have bought many single cards in the past from their eBay auctions and while I don't typically get a "deal" in the sense that the price is below market.

The recent lot I bought was this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-90-1949...72.m2749.l2649

Note that the title says "...ALL PSA6 EXMT (PWCC)".

I am working on a 49 Bowman PSA registry set, and it looked like I needed at least half of them, so I calculated a reasonable price based on all PSA 6's, considered a "volume" or common card lot discount, and I bid on the lot, thinking I could sell the rest.

After winning the lot, I found that 20 of the cards were not PSA 6. There were cards as lowly graded as PSA 4 and about 20 of the 90 were PSA 5 / 6/ 7 OC's, which most in the collecting world know get fewer bids and go for a value about 2 grades below a card graded with no qualifier.


So I went about calculating what the value difference is between what the title said, and what I got. I calculated the difference in value to be about $400 - $500, based on auction prices realized as well as SMR. I sent PWCC a message about it on eBay and their response was "sorry, there's nothing we can do other than cancel the purchase." The problem is that I did need about half of the cards for my set, so I didn't want to cancel the transaction - I wanted most of the cards. I just feel I got cheated by PWCC's error in the title of their listing. They could have agreed to do a number of things that would have made me more satisfied, like auction the OC's and ones that were less than PSA 6 for no fee, to give a credit, to pay shipping, something. Their response leaves me with an impression that they are becoming "too big for their britches", and no longer collector and customer focused. They seem to think they are now a grading company, a bank, a mutual fund index, or any number of things other than hobby / collector focused.

In the "about us" portion of their website they state:
Trading on trust: We believe trust is the bedrock of the trading card marketplace, and we handle every trade with the highest level of integrity and care. For 20 years, PWCC has worked tirelessly to provide collectors and investors the marketplace they deserve, where integrity and transparency are to be taken for granted, and investment-focused decision making can instead own the moment

I don't trust them anymore.

Tony Stinsa
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  #31  
Old 11-22-2018, 08:55 AM
vtgmsc vtgmsc is offline
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Reference: Tony Stinsa Quote "Ok, so here's my two cents on PWCC. I think they are losing their way. I say this based on a recent transaction on a large, fairly expensive lot of 49 Bowman PSA cards that I bought.

They do get a lot of bidders and a lot of attention to their eBay auctions. Congratulations to them. I am primarily a buyer. I have bought many single cards in the past from their eBay auctions and while I don't typically get a "deal" in the sense that the price is below market."



Tony,

No offense but I also bid on that auction and they CLEARLY show EVERY card in a photo in the description?!?!?!? Did you not scroll down to see EVERY card in the lot? They also say "nearly every card is a 6" in the description. I totally agree that the word "All" should NOT have been in the total but that is the only point I agree on here. I'm thinking since you were working a set that you did see all the other grades as they were laid out easy to see.

You are blaming them for 1 word that granted they should not have used but they explained everything in their description with clear photos.

Peace, Mike

Last edited by vtgmsc; 11-22-2018 at 08:56 AM.
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  #32  
Old 11-22-2018, 09:10 AM
Bram99 Bram99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtgmsc View Post
Reference: Tony Stinsa Quote "Ok, so here's my two cents on PWCC. I think they are losing their way. I say this based on a recent transaction on a large, fairly expensive lot of 49 Bowman PSA cards that I bought.

They do get a lot of bidders and a lot of attention to their eBay auctions. Congratulations to them. I am primarily a buyer. I have bought many single cards in the past from their eBay auctions and while I don't typically get a "deal" in the sense that the price is below market."



Tony,

No offense but I also bid on that auction and they CLEARLY show EVERY card in a photo in the description?!?!?!? Did you not scroll down to see EVERY card in the lot? They also say "nearly every card is a 6" in the description. I totally agree that the word "All" should NOT have been in the total but that is the only point I agree on here. I'm thinking since you were working a set that you did see all the other grades as they were laid out easy to see.

You are blaming them for 1 word that granted they should not have used but they explained everything in their description with clear photos.

Peace, Mike

Mike, I take no offense to your email. I made an oversight as well. I actually admitted that in my note to them. I took part of the blame but they took none. I was not asking them for or expecting a $500 discount. They could have provided free shipping, offer to re-list the 20 cards...something. They didn't make a reasonable attempt to rectify it with me, a collector - the market they used to cater to.
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  #33  
Old 11-22-2018, 09:59 AM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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Also from the description:

"This grouping comes from some of the very first PSA graded cards out there with nearly every card grading EXMT."

I'm no PWCC apologist, but the other problem is it's not their item to do with as they please, there is a consignor involved. They would either have to get the consignor's permission (which likely wouldn't happen) or issue you the partial refund and eat that amount when settling with the consignor.

A retail sale and a consignment sale are very different animals. They offered you a full refund, I don't understand how your trust was abused.
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Last edited by Aquarian Sports Cards; 11-22-2018 at 10:00 AM.
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  #34  
Old 11-22-2018, 10:12 AM
Bram99 Bram99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
Also from the description:

"This grouping comes from some of the very first PSA graded cards out there with nearly every card grading EXMT."

I'm no PWCC apologist, but the other problem is it's not their item to do with as they please, there is a consignor involved. They would either have to get the consignor's permission (which likely wouldn't happen) or issue you the partial refund and eat that amount when settling with the consignor.

A retail sale and a consignment sale are very different animals. They offered you a full refund, I don't understand how your trust was abused.
Thanks - I had not considered the consignor complication. I am not going to post anymore about it. But I'm not satisfied with the way this went. When a title and description are different, that's an error. PWCC stretched the truth on what "All" and "Nearly every" actually mean. "All" means 100% or "the whole amount, quantity, or extent of ". Nearly every in my book is no 70 out of 90.

In the end, it's my error as well. Caveat emptor.
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  #35  
Old 11-22-2018, 12:33 PM
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Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
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Look, as a seller who uses big, high res scans of cards, I have no sympathy for someone who misses or doesn't look at the pictures, other than to offer a full refund. Call it a lawyer's bias: reliance has to be reasonable to rescind for fraud; you can't blame PWCC if everything is pictured. But with eBay's screw the seller bias, I would rather just refund than argue. IMO the only time a buyer has an argument for a partial refund is if the item is damaged in transit or if something not shown or not remarked on is a problem. Otherwise, no. Keep it or send it back, but don't mess with Mr. In-Between. And all you pesky kids stay off my lawn.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 11-22-2018 at 12:36 PM.
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  #36  
Old 11-22-2018, 02:09 PM
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Stampsfan Stampsfan is offline
Bob Davies
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Nothing to do with the original consignor for sure.

My interpretation of what you're asking for is for you to pay for the lot, then have them sell (at no fees) each card that is not a pure PSA 6.

This sounds like a good compromise to me, and PWCC keeps a customer.
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  #37  
Old 11-22-2018, 02:31 PM
x2drich2000 x2drich2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Look, as a seller who uses big, high res scans of cards, I have no sympathy for someone who misses or doesn't look at the pictures, other than to offer a full refund. Call it a lawyer's bias: reliance has to be reasonable to rescind for fraud; you can't blame PWCC if everything is pictured. But with eBay's screw the seller bias, I would rather just refund than argue. IMO the only time a buyer has an argument for a partial refund is if the item is damaged in transit or if something not shown or not remarked on is a problem. Otherwise, no. Keep it or send it back, but don't mess with Mr. In-Between. And all you pesky kids stay off my lawn.
+1...plus I can absolutely understand why PWCC would not give a 0% sellers fee. If they did they would still have to pay the Ebay/Paypal fees on the second sale. Each one of those cards sold is at a loss to them and actually, the greater the card sells for the bigger their economic loss.
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  #38  
Old 11-22-2018, 02:33 PM
vtgmsc vtgmsc is offline
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Originally Posted by Bram99 View Post
Mike, I take no offense to your email. I made an oversight as well. I actually admitted that in my note to them. I took part of the blame but they took none. I was not asking them for or expecting a $500 discount. They could have provided free shipping, offer to re-list the 20 cards...something. They didn't make a reasonable attempt to rectify it with me, a collector - the market they used to cater to.

Got it. I'd probably have felt a bit miffed also but if you needed the bulk of them I understand your dilemma. I agree that the customer service end could have been handled differently by at least throwing you something to appease you since you are a longtime buyer and there was certainly confusion caused by that one word "ALL".

Take care, Mike

Last edited by vtgmsc; 11-22-2018 at 02:34 PM.
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