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  #61  
Old 11-10-2018, 12:23 PM
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Arthur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West View Post
I'm confused when you say "His comment serves no purpose in furthering or dispelling any theory". The whole point of this thread is finding out the who, what, when, where and how of the circumstances in which the NNOF was created. The "where" is a very important piece of the puzzle for a number of reasons that I'm not going to get into.

You say "he proved his memory wrong with the 100 card statement". His memory was not wrong. Topps did not know about the other 100 cards until they surfaced later in the lawsuit. So Liss did not know. The only reason that statement was incorrect was because the 100 cards went straight to President Bush and the other 100 went out the back door of the factory or into wax packs unbeknownst to Topps. Liss can only comment on information that Topps makes available to him.

All the circumstantial evidence pointed to Topps former printers going out of business in the early '80's and Topps taking their printing in house from the mid-80's to the mid-90's. We then have the mouthpiece of Topps say that the regular issue 1990 Topps cards were printed in Duryea. The statement, combined with the painstakingly gathered evidence from the last 4 decades indicate that there is a very high likelihood the NNOF was printed in Duryea. You are correct, it is not 100%. I appreciate a healthy amount of skepticism but this seems like quibbling to me.
You're correct and I misspoke when I said his memory was wrong.

I can't explain it any better than my previous 85% analogy. This is certainly a significant piece of circumstantial evidence but it by no means puts the issue to bed, like you suggested earlier.

Arthur
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  #62  
Old 11-10-2018, 01:12 PM
West West is offline
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Thanks for clarifying Arthur. Let’s push forward with our efforts aimed at digging for more clues.
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  #63  
Old 11-10-2018, 02:56 PM
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Posting scans here so folks can discuss.
Looks like a legit card to me.
Looks real to me too; maybe it got a heavy blue color pass or something so the name is partially showing up. Kind of like the 1982 Blackless"ing" cards that had some black ink on the card. If it's a real 1990 Topps card, I have no problem calling it a NNOF error. Maybe BGS or SGC will holder it.
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  #64  
Old 11-10-2018, 02:56 PM
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*double post; hate this computer*
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Current Want to Buy/Trade for List:
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COMC store: https://www.comc.com/Users/mjohnatgt,sh,i100

Last edited by swarmee; 11-10-2018 at 02:57 PM.
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  #65  
Old 11-11-2018, 08:41 AM
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Arthur
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West, is that your card? I would think it would need to be examined in-hand to really form a judgment. Tough to see the surface of a card in a scan or photo. The accuracy of the area is pretty good though.

Arthur
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  #66  
Old 11-11-2018, 09:15 AM
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Not my card. I have a partial blackless Thomas, the John Hart blackless error and the Jim Acker error so I am still looking for the Thomas and the 10 other errors.

Very true that the card would have to be examined by an expert under magnification to verify it has not been altered in any way. I'm guessing there are ways to recreate this error either by using a regular Thomas, a blank front or altering a NNOF, though the latter method would be questionable as the NNOF in what looks to be PSA 6 or 7 is already worth in excess of $1500.
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  #67  
Old 11-12-2018, 11:09 AM
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I'm sure someone could do it with carefully placed paper tape and the proper chemical. Just a matter of what the surface would look like after the procedure. I also don't know what a proper NNOF surface looks like under magnification. Did the process of leaving out the black ink also leave a different surface gloss? I imagine only someone who has examined one would know.

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  #68  
Old 11-14-2018, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
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There was discussion earlier about whether Topps farmed out printing to other print shops. We can now say with 100% certainty that the entirety of the 1990 Topps set was printed at the facility in Duryea.

------
"Only 100 cards were made, and they were all presented to President Bush,'' Topps spokesman Ken Liss said.

Yet Hull said he found one in a wax pack.

Liss said that was impossible, because the regular baseball cards were printed in Duryea, Pa., and the president's cards were printed in New York. Topps has demanded that Hull return the card, but he has refused.
------

http://community.seattletimes.nwsour...5&slug=1059335

I must correct the record on this. Tonight I spoke with a former Topps employee who wishes to remain anonymous. According to him Topps did NOT have printing capabilities at Duryea in 1990. They subcontracted out to other printers and had a company representative doing quality control at the printing house. The uncut sheets were then sent to Duryea to be cut up and assembled into packs, boxes and cases before being shipped out to retailers.

Additionally, despite rumors to the contrary, this person did not believe that the NNOF was a "first run" printing error. His reasoning was that there was meticulous attention to detail for the first print run and more than a few people had to sign off on the first proofs. He believes that the error occurred sometime later in the production cycle as a result of some obstruction in the printing press. I didn't get into the finer details of the theory of the error causation (obstruction in the press vs. obstruction on the negative during plate exposure) as he was not directly involved in platemaking and printing.

He estimated that quality control at the printers pulled a sheet once every 1000 sheets to check for errors. This may explain how 500-1000 NNOFs slipped out into packs.

He did not remember the error itself which is not unusual considering the massive amount of production occurring. 1990 was probably one of the peak years in terms of total base set production run. Also, this person was employed at Duryea and the error would have been caught at wherever printing was occurring.

The conversation was illuminating and it was quite interesting to speak to someone who was on the inside back then. This person gave me permission to share this information but otherwise wishes to remain anonymous and enjoy retirement and I will respect his wishes and not share any other details regarding him or his employment.

Last edited by West; 11-14-2018 at 06:52 PM.
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  #69  
Old 11-14-2018, 07:27 PM
sthoemke sthoemke is offline
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Does anyone know which of the 1990 baseball packaging were distributed first/last in the production run?

-wax packs
-cello packs
-rack packs
-factory sets
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  #70  
Old 11-14-2018, 07:50 PM
West West is offline
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The NNOF came out of wax. Have yet to hear of anyone getting it out of cello, rack packs or factory sets. As for the order of production I have to assume it was mixed throughout but I am unsure.
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