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  #11  
Old 07-02-2017, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by clydepepper View Post
You should compare Luis's record with Drysdale and Hunter.
That they are undeserving does not make him deserving.
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  #12  
Old 07-02-2017, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clydepepper View Post
You should compare Luis's record with Drysdale and Hunter.
all stats career stats

Luis Tiant : 229-172 record (silly stat) - 3.30 ERA, 3.40 FIP, 6.24 K/9 , 2.85 BB per 9 54.8 career fWAR over 3485 inn



Don Drysdale: 209-166 - 2.85 ERA, 3.02 FIP, 6.52 K/9, 2.24 BB/9, 59.3 fWAR over 3433 inn


Catfish Hunter:224-166 3.26 ERA, 3.66 FIP, 5.25 K/9, 2.49 BB/9 37.2 fWAR over 3449 inn


I think Tiant and Drysdale have good cases to be made, But Hunter is pretty far below what we'd accept as HOF level these days.
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  #13  
Old 07-02-2017, 06:37 PM
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Those sound like Roy Halladay numbers.

PS I am really surprised Cliff Lee and Roy Oswalt didn't have better career numbers.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-02-2017 at 06:41 PM.
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  #14  
Old 07-02-2017, 07:06 PM
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Lee's problem is that he didn't really learn to pitch until he was quite old. He was 29 in his first actually good season.

Halladay will be an interesting case for the hall of fame. He was perhaps the best pitcher in baseball for a number of years, something that neither Tiant nor Drysdale can say (Hunter really doesn't belong in this group). But his career doesn't have much bulk to it. I could see him getting elected quickly, but I could also see him sitting around 30% of the vote for years and never getting in. I really don't have any idea what they're going to do with him.
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  #15  
Old 07-02-2017, 07:11 PM
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Catfish did have 5 straight 20 win seasons including a 25. His overall numbers were clearly hurt by the fact that he was done at 32.
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  #16  
Old 07-02-2017, 08:25 PM
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Catfish was never really a great pitcher. He had three good years: 72, 74 and 75. But outside of that he was pretty ordinary. He *looked* like he was great because he was pitching in front of great teams. And it's his teammates that are largely responsible for his 20 win seasons. For his career, once you adjust for the parks he was playing in, his ERA was only about 4% better than average.
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  #17  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:55 PM
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1973 21-5 3rd in Cy Young and only a 1.8 WAR crazy.
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  #18  
Old 07-03-2017, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Those sound like Roy Halladay numbers.

PS I am really surprised Cliff Lee and Roy Oswalt didn't have better career numbers.


He was a lot of fun to watch! So graceful!

His delivery reminded me of Floyd Bannister when he was here (in Columbus) while in the minors...so smooth.

Seems like, however, that type of delivery would be very easy to time...unless your breaking and off-speed pitches are sufficiently similar coming out of your hand.

Lee's were...but injuries stopped him...just as it has many before and since him.

As I said, they were fun to watch, but not in the 1%.


As far as Halliday is concerned, he is a border line case for Cooperstown but he did author what I believe is the best pitched game I've ever seen...

His Playoff No-Hitter vs. the Reds - IMO - it was better, even, than his Perfect Game that same year...and, dare I say it, better also than

Kerry Wood's one-hit, no-walk, 20-strikeout game...which remains the highest game-score ever.



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Last edited by clydepepper; 07-03-2017 at 05:21 AM.
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  #19  
Old 07-03-2017, 08:49 AM
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Colavito is one of my favorite players and I have all his cards (except 1959 home run derby), but I don't think he's a hall of fame player. that doesn't mean he isn't beloved, and still relevant, still interviewed.

I also love Minoso and Oliva, in fact I like to collect these near-HOFers because they each have great stories and near-greatness.

It's too bad he's worried about it, but I understand that he would love to be a hall of famer - who wouldn't

I also don't have his 1959 Kahn's. If anyone has one - let me know!

Last edited by MCoxon; 07-03-2017 at 08:52 AM.
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  #20  
Old 07-03-2017, 10:36 AM
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I would like to Maris in the HOF well before I ever saw Colavito there.
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