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  #21  
Old 07-22-2017, 08:11 PM
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Everybody benefits from hitting in Coors. Larry Walker was no different, but his HOF Standards and HOF Monitor scores are better than average, not to mention he's up there in black ink. JAWS ranks him 10th all time among right fielders, the only one in the top 10 not yet in and higher than 13 who are already enshrined.

He was still a fantastic player on the road and many times as a Rockie hit .300 or close to it away from Coors.

In my opinion, he is a Hall of Famer. He is also part of the Hall of Stats and Hall of Merit.
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  #22  
Old 07-22-2017, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bravos4evr View Post
it'll be up to the committee as he fell of the ballot after only a year or so. IMO, if you are a Jim Edmonds fan, you should be rooting for Andruw Jones to get in as he is only 2.6 fWAR ahead of Edmonds and if Jones gets in, it buttresses Edmonds' case.

ETA: one thing that hurts Edmonds is roids. His best seasons were ages 32-35, that doesn't look very good.
I cannot imagine Andruw Jones is ever getting in the HOF.
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  #23  
Old 07-22-2017, 09:40 PM
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I cannot imagine Andruw Jones is ever getting in the HOF.
he should, greatest defensive OF'er of all time (and it's not even close) 400 homers, top 10 in CF WAR.

Higher career fWAR than Duke Snider, Andre Dawson, Richie Ashburn.


anyone who is one of the ten best at their position ,all time, should be in the HOF.
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  #24  
Old 07-22-2017, 09:44 PM
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A. Jones for the hall is probably a no-go, but he's got an interesting case. By the best way we have for measuring defensive performance, Jones is far and away the greatest defensive outfielder of all time. (Paul Blair and Willie Mays are essentially tied for second, and Jones has about a 33% lead on them.)

There are reasons to be skeptical of this. The way the system works is that it breaks the field down into zones and assigns levels of credit for plays made in each zone, depending on how often someone playing your position makes a play in that zone. (You also lose credit if you fail to make a play in a zone that you should be expected to make given the position that you were playing.) Some people speculate that Jones was able to range out into LF and RF and make spectacular plays that his fellow outfielders would have made anyway. (They were spectacular for Jones because CF to RF can be a long way to go, they would be easy for the RF because he's already right there.) I don't know if this holds water, but it's one criticism of Jones' defensive performance.

Another problem is that we didn't have this zone-based measure of defense for most of baseball history. We did have less accurate ways of measuring defense; but, knowing that they are less accurate, when comparing players across eras we regress the less accurate stats towards average. This means that truly unusual performances (both positive and negative) get overlooked. So Jones might not be as far ahead of everyone else as it looks like he is.

If Jones really was as good defensively as our best defensive stats say that he was, he's well qualified for the hall. If the worries I raised above are on point, then he's a more iffy candidate. (At least on the merits. I agree he won't actually get in.)
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  #25  
Old 07-22-2017, 10:08 PM
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The Marlins are in talks to trade Ichiro to the Rockies. He will hit 6 homers there rest of year if he is traded now and most importantly that would land them a former player in the HOF
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  #26  
Old 07-23-2017, 12:05 AM
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Andruw Jones has a case for Cooperstown. There is an argument for and against, but you'll be waiting a while if you think he will get in.
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  #27  
Old 07-23-2017, 12:13 AM
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Andruw Jones has a case for Cooperstown. There is an argument for and against, but you'll be waiting a while if you think he will get in.
I don't think he gets in on votes. But the vet committee will get him in.

That being said, the voters are getting more and more metrics focused every year and this kind of thinking would help the cases of guys like he, Walker and Edmonds.

IMO, if Ozzie Smith is in and Brooks Robinson, Andruw should be too as he was great with the glove and a better hitter than either of them.
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  #28  
Old 07-23-2017, 06:27 AM
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All this defensive HOF focus brings to mind Bill Mazeroski.

What's your opinion of him being in?

Was he that much better than his 2B peers?

How much weight did his WS-winning homer get?

Was he the result of some sort of 'unofficial' quota being used for each position? IE Was he the best of an average lot?


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  #29  
Old 07-23-2017, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topps206 View Post
Andruw Jones has a case for Cooperstown. There is an argument for and against, but you'll be waiting a while if you think he will get in.
I agree. It takes more than these awards but at the same time, these can't be ignored.
MLB

5 All-Star (2000, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006)
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All-Star (2013)
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  #30  
Old 07-23-2017, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bravos4evr View Post
he should, greatest defensive OF'er of all time (and it's not even close) 400 homers, top 10 in CF WAR.

Higher career fWAR than Duke Snider, Andre Dawson, Richie Ashburn.


anyone who is one of the ten best at their position ,all time, should be in the HOF.
I am not arguing the merits, I am just saying a .254 hitting outfielder will not get in, in my opinion. He really fell off the table at age 30, I can't remember now was it injury?
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-23-2017 at 10:18 AM.
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