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Old 04-01-2006, 10:44 AM
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Default OJ Fronts

Posted By: Lee Behrens

How many different fronts are available in the OJ set? Scans would be cool.

Lee

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Old 04-01-2006, 11:25 AM
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Default OJ Fronts

Posted By: jay behrens

OJ style fronts, or actualy players fronts. I'm assuming you just me the OJ style fronts.

Jay

WOW upsidedown is MOM. Mom upsidedown is what dad wants to see.

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Old 04-01-2006, 11:35 AM
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Default OJ Fronts

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Can you be more specific:

Font or name style fronts
Numbering fronts
Logo style fronts
Script only fronts
Browns Champs fronts
Spotted Tie fronts
Outdoor pose fronts
"Mini" fronts


I'm guessing you mean the fonts and styles used to list the player name, position and team.

We have a Corcoran stalker on board (I think Corcoran's kin folk have actaully filed a restraining order on JD). Corcoran has two poses in the OJ set. John can probably give you a good idea of how many different variations he's run into on just those two poses. It's kind of mind boggling...

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Old 04-01-2006, 11:42 AM
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Default OJ Fronts

Posted By: warshawlaw

There are only two boxers in the set but I seem to run across image and mount variations every year. If only the accursed tobacco manufacturers had realized that we would doggedly pursue every minute variation...

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Old 04-01-2006, 11:47 AM
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Default OJ Fronts

Posted By: JimB

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I am curious as to how many different fronts are in some of the largest collections. I don't care about who has them, but I am curious if anybody has over 500 different fronts for example.
JimB

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Old 04-01-2006, 12:49 PM
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Default OJ Fronts

Posted By: jay behrens

I'd be willing to bet that Jay Miller and Kieth Olberman do. Lew Lipset did, or maybe still does. I'm think Kieth Mitchell's collection exceeded that. Not sure who else might have had OJ collections that large.

Jay

WOW upsidedown is MOM. Mom upsidedown is what dad wants to see.

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Old 04-01-2006, 01:51 PM
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Default OJ Fronts

Posted By: Tom Boblitt

2000-2500 'fronts'.....anyone care to fess up?

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Old 04-06-2006, 06:13 PM
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Default OJ Fronts

Posted By: Joe_G.

Just getting back from a one week vacation, sorry for some of the bumping of older threads.

The question here has been answered before by Jay Miller, myself, and others. If you are asking about unique catalogued N172 poses, the number is ~2418 split between 520 subjects. There are an additional ~35 N173 poses that haven't been found in the smaller N172 format. If you are asking about variations to poses such as team changes or earlier cards re-issued in later years than the number doubles, triples, etc.

If you are asking how many fronts exist w.r.t. "styles", then you can again refer to several past posts. But here is a quick rundown of the generally accepted categories. I'd also like to add that Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia of 19th Century cards does a good job of discussing this topic. Here is a summary of some previously composed notes I have.

---------------------

1887, easily identified as only OJs with "Old Judge Cigarettes" banner in photo area. Regardless of type, this holds true.
Script - name in script at bottom with no number; all other 1887 cards have a number. 23 players amongst 33 poses listed, includes 16 NY Mets Spotted Ties. These are the only true "script" cards, don't confuse with the long numbered type II cards or the 1889 cards with player name in script. I only share this warning since script cards usually carry a premium. In most cases the type II long numbered cards and 1889 with name in script are not tough.
Short Number - numbered without leading zero. 17 players amongst 30 poses, includes 13 Browns Champs cards. Other subjects include Kelly, McCormick, & Mascot.
Long Number - also referred to as leading zero number cards. Includes all 8 National League teams and the American Association Brooklyn team. 505 poses found amongst 117 players (yes, some players have many poses). 5 of the 8 National League teams were issued in a 2nd type of long numbered card that moved the number to the bottom of the card along with the player name, position, and team all in script writing. These represent some of the more collectable cards (both the type I & II) as they are more easily obtained than other cards. Should note that some long numbered cards (type I) have been found with the number missing, most common being players from the Philadelphia team. Lastly, the Brooklyn mini cards could be considered a subset within the long numbered cards. These are among the tougher type cards to obtain.
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1888, advertising at bottom reads "Old Judge Cigarettes", all falling under one of two types as designated by Cartophilic Society.
Type Fa - large "GOODWIN & CO., New York.". Many new teams and players added along with many re-issues of 1887 poses.
Type Fb - small & bold "GOODWIN & CO., New York." Similar to Fa, among the new teams, the popular Chicago Maroons.

The 1888 issue was truly expansive with all the same 8 National League teams still represented including more players being added that were missed in 1887. Goodwin also added considerable American Association content together with the Western Association.
---------------------

1889, advertising at bottom reads "Old Judge Cigarette Factory" with no PL or NL designation. Similar to 1888 cards, Goodwin & Co. continued to re-issue some of the previously distributed poses but added more players, poses, team changes, etc. The 1889 cards include the very rare Pacific Coast League cards of which 19 different players have so far been catalogued (all with a single pose). As previously mentioned, some of the 1889 cards have the players name in script, just as it appears on the Cabinet cards. These are usually not considered any more rare than other typical 1889 cards. Also would like to note that 1889 appears to be the beginning of Goodwin & Company experimenting with various photo colors, most common being a pink hue.
---------------------

1890, advertising at bottom reads "Old Judge Cigarette Factory" but now with PL or NL designation. Tough cards, usually poor photo quality. Usually, but not always a copy of an 1889 issued card. The NL and PL is sometimes typewritten and other times added in script. Still other examples have been found with no NL or PL identifier, but are obvious 1890 cards due to the team the player is found with.
---------------------


Hope this helps.

Regards,
Joe Gonsowski
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