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  #1  
Old 07-15-2017, 04:54 PM
CJDave CJDave is offline
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Default Opinions on a 1922 CHARLIE ROBERTSON PERFECT GAME ACTUAL GAME USED BASEBALL

Thank you in advance for any opinions:

I know this isn't an autograph but I wasn't sure which forum to post this in. Can anyone give me an opinion on what I am told is a 1922 CHARLIE ROBERTSON PERFECT GAME ACTUAL GAME USED BASEBALL.

This is the description: THIS AUCTION FOR A SPECTACULAR, HISTORICAL ITEM. THIS AUCTION IS FOR AN ORIGINAL BASEBALL THAT WAS USED IN THE 1922 PERFECT GAME HURLED BY CHICAGO WHITE SOX PITCHER CHARLIE ROBERTSON AGAINST THE DETROIT TIGERS ON APRIL 30, 1922. THIS BALL HAS BEEN IN A HIGH END PRIVATE COLLECTION SINCE THE 1970'S WHEN IT WAS SOURCED DIRECTLY FROM A CHICAGO AREA BAR WHERE THE BALL ORIGINALLY RESIDED SINCE 1922!!!!! THE ACTUAL WRITING ON THE BALL DETAILING THIS GAME STILL SLIGHTLY PARTIALLY LEGIBLE. GREAT APPEAL. BAN JOHNSON OFFICIAL REACH AMERICAN LEAGUE BASEBALL. IMPORTANT ORB!!!!!

sourced from tony cocchi from atlanta georgia who is one of the foremost experts in game worn items in the country and has been since the 1970's. he purchased this ball himself from the chicago bar in the 1970's. it is a fantastic item

The bar was called mccuddy's bar and was across the street from old comiskey park.

Last edited by CJDave; 07-15-2017 at 04:55 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-15-2017, 07:16 PM
mr2686 mr2686 is offline
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Ok, first off I am not even close to a game used/equipment used expert and I had either never heard of tony cocchi or just forgot about him. Anyway, it took all of 30 seconds on the internet to dig up some disturbing stories about him and bogus memorabilia. Now, does that mean it's true, well no, not necessarily, but it raises that damn red flag enough to start looking a bit deeper. First off, there have been many stories over the years about some piece of memorabilia or another that was given to a bar owner near a stadium. Most of the stories are true, it's just whether or not the piece of memorabilia that's being sold was actually THAT piece of memorabilia. There are quite a few newspaper stories about Mccuddy's (which closed in 1988) and even a Youtube video with the owner/decendent. I only looked at a handful, hoping there was a mention of your ball, but I didn't find any...you may want to do a more thorough look. My main concern about Mr. Cocchi's story, is the time frame when he purchased it. I find it hard to believe the bar would sell off stuff in the 70's, but it's always possible. Bars like that are an institution and the photos and memorabilia are a huge drawing card. Again, more legwork would be in order.
Bottom line is, you may be able to find some evidence with some hard work, but you may hit a dead end.
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  #3  
Old 07-16-2017, 08:11 AM
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GrayGhost GrayGhost is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2686 View Post
Ok, first off I am not even close to a game used/equipment used expert and I had either never heard of tony cocchi or just forgot about him. Anyway, it took all of 30 seconds on the internet to dig up some disturbing stories about him and bogus memorabilia. Now, does that mean it's true, well no, not necessarily, but it raises that damn red flag enough to start looking a bit deeper. First off, there have been many stories over the years about some piece of memorabilia or another that was given to a bar owner near a stadium. Most of the stories are true, it's just whether or not the piece of memorabilia that's being sold was actually THAT piece of memorabilia. There are quite a few newspaper stories about Mccuddy's (which closed in 1988) and even a Youtube video with the owner/decendent. I only looked at a handful, hoping there was a mention of your ball, but I didn't find any...you may want to do a more thorough look. My main concern about Mr. Cocchi's story, is the time frame when he purchased it. I find it hard to believe the bar would sell off stuff in the 70's, but it's always possible. Bars like that are an institution and the photos and memorabilia are a huge drawing card. Again, more legwork would be in order.
Bottom line is, you may be able to find some evidence with some hard work, but you may hit a dead end.
+1 and regardless this one may have a big leap of faith
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  #4  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:33 AM
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Scott Garner Scott Garner is offline
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Default Charlie Robertson "Perfect Game" Ball

Disclaimer:
I actually was an under bidder on this ball when it sold on eBay a few months ago.

To purchase it certainly does require a substantial leap of faith, as other's have already mentioned. The eBay seller is someone that I personally know well as being reputable having dealt with him for perhaps 20-25 years (even prior to the internet).
He apparently purchased the ball directly from the collector that you mentioned that I don't claim to know at all, nor did I know as the named collector when I was bidding on the ball.
The eBay seller and I exchanged several e-mails discussing the ball. Although there were several question marks about the ball, my biggest concern at the time was that the inscription on the ball itself had virtually disappeared over time making it a real challenge to ever authenticate 100%. With artifacts this old, it's not unique in this respect...

If you were the winning bidder, you have to rely on your gut as to it's authenticity. If the ball had stronger provenance you know that it quite certainly would have sold for thousands more than what you paid for it.
The ball itself is certainly correct for the time period in which Charlie Robertson hurled his perfect game in 1922, but this in of itself doesn't make it a game ball from this game.

Trivia fact: Charlie Robertson's masterpiece was the first game that the press ever used the term "perfect game".
In my personal collection I own all of the attached items with the exception of the scored program to Charlie Robertson's perfecto which sold on eBay a number of years ago.

Last edited by Scott Garner; 07-17-2017 at 07:29 AM.
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  #5  
Old 07-21-2017, 09:42 AM
CJDave CJDave is offline
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Default Robertson

Thank you for the feedback Scott. You are all correct, it is/was a leap of faith. But as they say, If you want big rewards, you gotta take big risks.

I think it was worth the chance, it has a good back story and who knows, I could be in possession of a one of a kind piece of baseball history.

I will actually be selling off all of my Blacksox memorabilia in the next week or two. Baseball cards, autographs, tickets, programs, etc.

I would love to find a Charlie Robertson autographed baseball.....I can find his autographed index card all day long, but the signed baseball has eluded me.

Thank you again for all the feedback.

Dave.
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  #6  
Old 07-21-2017, 02:41 PM
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Scott Garner Scott Garner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJDave View Post
Thank you for the feedback Scott. You are all correct, it is/was a leap of faith. But as they say, If you want big rewards, you gotta take big risks.

I think it was worth the chance, it has a good back story and who knows, I could be in possession of a one of a kind piece of baseball history.

I will actually be selling off all of my Blacksox memorabilia in the next week or two. Baseball cards, autographs, tickets, programs, etc.

I would love to find a Charlie Robertson autographed baseball.....I can find his autographed index card all day long, but the signed baseball has eluded me.

Thank you again for all the feedback.

Dave.
Hi Dave,
You are certainly welcome.
FYI, I have seen 1 or 2 Charlie Robertson baseballs in the past make their way into the hobby, but it has been a number of years now.
Did you know that Charlie Robertson only would sign 3 x 5 index cards 1 day per year; the anniversary of his perfect game on April 30th?
It seems to me that OP on net 54 have use black light (or another type of light) to be able to read old writing on balls that have become illegible. You may want to try that with your ball in order to possibly gain more insight as to any remaining ink and what it says.
Perhaps others could chime in as how to do this?
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Old 07-22-2017, 03:15 PM
CJDave CJDave is offline
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I will definitely try that black light option. It definitely worth a shot. Thanks again.
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Old 07-22-2017, 09:43 PM
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drcy drcy is offline
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You'd use infrared rather than blacklight to try and read any faded inscription. Infrared is what they use to read those ancient documents such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. If you could, you could get someone like John Reznikoff to inspect it, as he might have the machinery to see any writing.

Last edited by drcy; 07-22-2017 at 09:51 PM.
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  #9  
Old 07-23-2017, 02:22 AM
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David Atkatz David Atkatz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drcy View Post
You'd use infrared rather than blacklight to try and read any faded inscription. Infrared is what they use to read those ancient documents such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. If you could, you could get someone like John Reznikoff to inspect it, as he might have the machinery to see any writing.
Or, put some there himself if he doesn't see any.
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