McDavid Outselling Crosby

[58pinson]

Irv,

Enjoyed very much reading your Bobby Orr posts. I wonder how many people down here in the US realize that these kids in Canada leave home at the young age they do to play Major Junior. That's what it means to be a national pastime. On my bucket list is a trans Canada trip via rail to catch as many games as possible in a two week period or so of the WHL and OHL. Might try my hand at the QMJHL also, but my French is non-existent. Some day I hope.

[irv]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I was too small when Lindros playing for Oshawa. I have always wanted to see his Oshawa games and I even contacted the Generals to see if they had any in their archives, but nope, nothing.

Like I mentioned, I never missed a game, including his home opener/debut.
Like this vid, there are many you can watch via youtube. Just scroll down the right side and you will see for yourself. Likely not all that you are after, but still some pretty good clips there. I regret never saving any of my tickets. Not that they are likely worth anything, I just wish I had some, especially his home opener/debut
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W4YfbXkzWA

Originally Posted by 58pinson

Irv,

Enjoyed very much reading your Bobby Orr posts. I wonder how many people down here in the US realize that these kids in Canada leave home at the young age they do to play Major Junior. That's what it means to be a national pastime. On my bucket list is a trans Canada trip via rail to catch as many games as possible in a two week period or so of the WHL and OHL. Might try my hand at the QMJHL also, but my French is non-existent. Some day I hope.

My Boss's brother, from Stirling Ont, (not far from Cobourg/Belleville) was drafted by the Soo St. Marie Greyhounds of the OHL but didn't go because of the huge change/undertaking that was involved with such a move.
It entails not only moving far far away from home, but also living with billets, going to a new school, making new friends, etc, etc.
It is not an easy thing to do for a 15-16 yr old let alone an adult, but that's what takes if you want to continue on with the NHL dream.

I currently work with John Goodwin. He was the OHL scoring leader for the Soo Greyhounds and was drafted by the Montreal CDN's. Despite his scoring prowess/skill, he never did crack their lineup and eventually, after trying a few other different avenues, packed it in, unfortunately.
http://www.saultstar.com/2013/03/07/...1980-81-season

I also have a friend, Brian Heard, who's son, Mitch was drafted 41st overall but hasn't played in one NHL game yet.
It is tough! From the early days at the rink at a very young age, to numerous amounts of travel, practices, camps, tournaments, etc, etc and to be never called up or make the big team, is a huge disappointment, but most adults/kids know this is a possibility but in order to live their dream, this is what it takes.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=122869

(Some miscellaneous pics of my son below and some other pics of my son with Bryan Bickell with the Stanley Cup he won with the Chicago Blackhawks and a couple others with Andrew Shaw formerly from the Hawks but now with Montreal. He actually got to play a game of shinny with Andrew! )

Your bucket list item sounds like a great one, 58 Pinson! Something I wouldn't mind doing myself someday.
I have traveled far and wide with my son's hockey but we have never been to Quebec to play. I speak about as much French as you but I still think that would be fun.
He is now only playing house league and High School hockey so my travelling days are likely far behind me, but despite how busy it was, it was also a lot of fun.

Glad you enjoy my Orr story.

[58pinson]

Wow! Great pics of your son Irv. Your mention of the Soo Greyhounds forced me to drag out my now almost 25 year old Soo sweatshirt and take a look at the names on the mini jerseys on it's front - Ron Francis, Rick Tocchet, Wayne Gretzky, Paul Coffey, and John Vanbiesbrouck. That club has had some great players. Also have a Brandon Wheat Kings gamer from '92-93 of Colin Cloutier, drafted in the 2nd round by the Lightning. Unfortunately he got busted up and never fulfilled his potential.
Since we're talking Junior Hockey I thought, on the 1 in a 1,000 chance that you haven't heard of it, I'd mention the movie "Youngblood" with Rob Lowe and a bunch of other familiar faces. Eric Nesterenko has the part of Lowe's father as sort of a cameo. Always make a point of watching it when the season gets started.

[irv]

Originally Posted by 58pinson

Wow! Great pics of your son Irv. Your mention of the Soo Greyhounds forced me to drag out my now almost 25 year old Soo sweatshirt and take a look at the names on the mini jerseys on it's front - Ron Francis, Rick Tocchet, Wayne Gretzky, Paul Coffey, and John Vanbiesbrouck. That club has had some great players. Also have a Brandon Wheat Kings gamer from '92-93 of Colin Cloutier, drafted in the 2nd round by the Lightning. Unfortunately he got busted up and never fulfilled his potential.
Since we're talking Junior Hockey I thought, on the 1 in a 1,000 chance that you haven't heard of it, I'd mention the movie "Youngblood" with Rob Lowe and a bunch of other familiar faces. Eric Nesterenko has the part of Lowe's father as sort of a cameo. Always make a point of watching it when the season gets started.

Yes, the Soo has definitely developed some great hockey players over the years, that's for sure.

I'm not sure how many times I have watched Youngblood, but it is a lot. As hormone raging, barley out of my teens kid, I'm not sure what I enjoyed more, the hockey or seeing Cynthia Gibb? LOL

Also, I had no idea, until now, Rob Lowe's Dad in the movie was a hockey player. I assumed back then he was just an actor. Thanks for the info.

[samosa4u]

Alright, now to get back on topic here (lol), it looks like I made a mistake. In my original post, I stated that Crosby's The Cup Rookie is going for $3,000 - $4,000 USD, however, those sale prices I came across were for the Gold version (#'ed /87) and not the base card (which is #'ed /99). On April 28th 2016, PWCC sold one example for almost $11,000 USD. Here is the link below:

https://www.pwccauctions.com/item.php?item_id=1272819

According to my research, majority of hockey collectors collect the base cards, so this is why the one #'ed to /99 (a base card and his true rookie) is worth 3 - 4 times more than the gold version (an insert). Check this thread out below:

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/h...much-less.html

So it looks to me as if the prices have not dropped over the years. The gold version has gone up a bit, and I am going to assume that his base card is probably worth $12,000+.

Anyhow, McDavid's cards are still going for more and I still find this surprising considering Crosby is currently the best player in the world with 3 rings.

[PowderedH2O]

What's funny to me is that I wouldn't recognize either of the cards you mentioned. I live in the south, but I have a decent hockey card collection. But, in the 1990's/2000's when the companies kept changing and I couldn't keep up with who was making what product on any given year, I just gave up. So, my hockey collection is stagnant. I am not going back any further, because I never saw hockey in the 1950's or before, and I wouldn't even know what to buy for the current stuff. I don't feel like putting $300-$500 into a current set. So, my stuff kinda stops in the 2001/2002 area.

As far as the values, it is just terrible. Here in Carolina, we had Eric Staal. I have a number of his rookie cards, but none of them are worth anything. I think in the NHL, only the highest fruit are worth picking. The guys that are having strong careers, but aren't among that Gretzky/Orr/Crosby level are just not worth much. Heck, Ron Francis retired as the #4 scorer in NHL history, and his rookies are worth slightly more than a McDonald's Happy Meal. I just don't think the money is worth putting into it, and that's a shame, because I love the game.

[samosa4u]

I am not going back any further, because I never saw hockey in the 1950's or before

And that's why hockey card collecting sucks for you, because you refuse to collect vintage . The best ones are vintage: Howe, Sawchuk, Plante, Richard, Orr, Hull, Esposito, Morenz, Shore, Mikita, Keon, Vezina, Conacher, Apps, Broda, etc. I could give you a HUGE list, and all these cards are pretty valuable.

Heck, Ron Francis retired as the #4 scorer in NHL history, and his rookies are worth slightly more than a McDonald's Happy Meal.

There are two reasons why hockey cards from the 1980s aren't worth much:

1) They were mass-produced.

2) A lot of cards from this decade have a Topps and an O-Pee-Chee version (example, Patrick Roy has a Topps RC and an O-Pee-Chee RC).

[JustinD]

I have to jump in a tad on this as I think Crosby has a bit of a strange aura on his cards that keeps them lower.

That is the fact that much like comparing the value of LeBron rookies, when a huge segment of fans absolutely hate the player, it can slow demand. As a resident of Detroit, I can easily say I have never met a Crosby fan that wasn't visiting. Many other major cities have the same feelings.

He's the greatest player in the world, and visiting my inlaws in Pittsburgh puts me in different crowd that speaks of the kid in reverence. Outside of of Pennsylvania though, I am likely to hear the same things...cheap shot artist, whiner, and diver.

McDavid has none of the baggage and is more likely to reach the level of love that Gretzky had in fans minds...whether he does it or not in the future.

[samosa4u]

Great post, Justin.

People have always called Crosby a cry-baby, diver, etc. but did they ever realize that this guy doesn't have an enforcer to watch his back? How many big, strong guys protected Gretzky? Quite a few. Even McDavid has Lucic. Crosby has no one, and yet he just won two cups back-to-back and that's very impressive. Put it this way: if you have to put up with so much abuse game after game, aren't you going to become a whiner? He gets his head bashed in frequently, gets elbowed, and nasty things are said to him, heck, he even had one guy spray him what his water bottle - can you blame Crosby for acting the way he does? Oh, and he has also suffered around 5 concussions and the man is only 29 years old.

I like how you mention LeBron James - yes, both of these athletes share many similarities. A lot of people hate James, but they would LOVE to have him play for their team, right?

[PowderedH2O]

Having seen Mario Lemieux play in person at least 50 times, I can say that Crosby learned from the best. Lemieux was a big, bruising player that I saw deliver crushing shots and many dirty hits. But, if someone hit him, oh, it was as if he was some innocent choirboy that was just being bullied. Yes, Gretzky had people to protect him, but Gretzky also did not deliver the dirty shots. Lemieux gave as much as he received. Maybe more.

Lemieux is such a hypocrite. He complains about how Crosby gets beat up, but then he associates himself with guys like Ulf Samuelsson, Matt Cooke, and Brooks Orpik. As a Hurricanes fan, I've witnessed two of my guys get taken out by vicious dirty hits from Pens players under Lemieux's watch. In our Stanley Cup run of 2006, Orpik boarded Erik Cole so badly that it broke his neck, and Cole never was the same player again. Cole was our #2 guy, right after Eric Staal. If that had happened to Malkin or Crosby, Mario would have gone through the roof. If Crosby or Malkin received the dirty hit that Marc Savard got from Matt Cooke, Mario would be crying to Bettman all day long. But, Cooke wouldn't have gotten that shot on Savard if Mario hadn't kept him, even after suspensions for dirty hits to Anisimov and Walker earlier.

In baseball, if a pitcher is a known headhunter, sometimes the opposing pitcher will go after a hitter for the headhunter's team in retaliation. Well, the Pens have had their share of thugs for years, so other teams make sure that they retaliate against the Pens' top asset: Crosby.

I think Crosby is a great player. But, I don't care for his complaining, especially when he is guilty of everything he complains about. I've yet to see Connor McDavid do any of this. I hope he never does. Believe me, if an Edmonton vs Pittsburgh final comes up next year (and it certainly might), this is one American that will be rooting 100% for the Oilers.