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  #1  
Old 03-11-2019, 03:06 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
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Default OT: Derek Jeter Forgeries On Counterfeit Cards

Below is a link to a Blog I posted yesterday on forged Derek Jeter 1994-1995 counterfeit Upper Deck baseball cards.

I noticed these forgeries months ago, but at the time I didn't really feel like exposing anything.

But yesterday, something ticked me off and I got rolling.

Jeter forgeries on counterfeit cards.


https://live.autographmagazine.com/p...here-are-these

Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 03-11-2019 at 03:08 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-11-2019, 03:58 PM
chalupacollects chalupacollects is offline
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Great article! Law enforcement notified?
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  #3  
Old 03-11-2019, 04:04 PM
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Wow... it never ceases to amaze me how low people will stoop to run a scam. I am in the market for a lower end Jeter rookie auto and noticed quite a few of these available recently in my searches, now I know why. Thanks for pointing this out Christopher.

I wish the athletes/companies they are ripping off would go after people like this and make an example of them, this is pure FRAUD and sellers like this should be in jail IMHO.
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  #4  
Old 03-11-2019, 04:06 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalupacollects View Post
Great article! Law enforcement notified?
So far I have only notified Upper Deck, and to be honest, I don't expect to hear back from them.

Previous experiences tell me, that companies like Steiner Sports, UDA, etc., don't care.
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  #5  
Old 03-11-2019, 04:07 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
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Originally Posted by Ryan1125 View Post
Wow... it never ceases to amaze me how low people will stoop to run a scam. I am in the market for a lower end Jeter rookie auto and noticed quite a few of these available recently in my searches, now I know why. Thanks for pointing this out Christopher.

I wish the athletes/companies they are ripping off would go after people like this and make an example of them, this is pure FRAUD and sellers like this should be in jail IMHO.
I agree, Ryan.

Like I wrote in my blog, people are buying the back of the card:



Jeter1995AmerLegends-2.jpg

Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 03-12-2019 at 06:28 PM.
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  #6  
Old 03-11-2019, 09:20 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan1125 View Post
Wow... it never ceases to amaze me how low people will stoop to run a scam. I am in the market for a lower end Jeter rookie auto and noticed quite a few of these available recently in my searches, now I know why. Thanks for pointing this out Christopher.

I wish the athletes/companies they are ripping off would go after people like this and make an example of them, this is pure FRAUD and sellers like this should be in jail IMHO.
It would be easy to assume that these were Upper Deck issued cards, and that is why I always concentrate on the autograph before anything else.

First, they were easy forgeries to opine, but the sheer number of them in such a short period of time sure got my interest.

They were two Ebay sellers that were listing new ones as soon as the previous auction ended.

Just rolled them out one after another.
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  #7  
Old 03-11-2019, 10:00 PM
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Good job - thanks for posting .
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  #8  
Old 03-12-2019, 01:37 AM
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Thank you for posting. I purchased one of the cards in your article. If it can be used as evidence by anyone willing to pursue this I will happily eat the money to see the people responsible get what is coming. I will follow up with a pm. As for a low end Jeter it was a a time a tough card to get. And I
like you said in article trusted the Upper deck hologram on the back.
Thanks I hope this goes somewhere.
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  #9  
Old 03-12-2019, 01:51 AM
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I sent a message to TNTnorthjersey If they are source then the fact that I live in NJ is going to be a problem for them. I will reach out to family members in law enforcement and see if I can get any traction. I also have a relative that is a postal inspector. What is so sad is how many have sold in such a short time. I bought mine a forgot about it. If I had followed the market I might have caught on. But your article and post was a big help. Thank you.again.
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  #10  
Old 03-12-2019, 03:03 AM
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Someone has been faking these for a few years now. The same people have made fake 2017 Judge heritage blank back cards.
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  #11  
Old 03-12-2019, 09:20 AM
Mr. Zipper Mr. Zipper is offline
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We know law enforcement isn't going to go after them for forged signatures.

But, you'd think Upper Deck and the other manufacturers WOULD take an interest in someone counterfeiting their licensed product. In my view, that is a much more viable avenue to make these crooks pay.
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  #12  
Old 03-12-2019, 10:18 AM
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In general, buyers beware of pre 2000 autographs. Grading companies will not grade them as company authenticated cards. They have to go through the authentication process because so many of the companies who made autograph cards went through some sort of warehouse sale or bankruptcy and the cards are prone to forgery since blanks went out.
It doesn’t seem like this is an Upper Deck issue. They are out of the baseball business.. I would think this is more an mlb / nyy/ Derek jeter issue since they are counterfeiting mlb intellectual property and logos and the image and name of Derek Jeter. I would love to see them involved in protecting their license.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper View Post
We know law enforcement isn't going to go after them for forged signatures.

But, you'd think Upper Deck and the other manufacturers WOULD take an interest in someone counterfeiting their licensed product. In my view, that is a much more viable avenue to make these crooks pay.
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  #13  
Old 03-12-2019, 10:39 AM
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Chris,

Great work! Very informative write up. I've been wanting to add a Jeter autograph to my collection and I would have been fooled by this.
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  #14  
Old 03-12-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfanNY View Post
I sent a message to TNTnorthjersey If they are source then the fact that I live in NJ is going to be a problem for them. I will reach out to family members in law enforcement and see if I can get any traction.
Fingers crossed, TNTnorthNJ is one of the worst sellers on eBay. They get hundreds of negative feedback comments every year as far back as I can remember, but do so much volume their feedback rating is 99%+. I bought something from them over ten years ago and never got the item or a refund (this was before Paypal and all the buyer protection rules) so whenever something of theirs comes up in my search I check to see if they've cleaned up their act. The answer is always no. I've never understood why eBay never did anything about them.
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  #15  
Old 03-12-2019, 12:36 PM
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very nice cottage industry. What a business idea? Some people have no pride or integrity. What goes around comes around PERIOD.
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  #16  
Old 03-12-2019, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper View Post
We know law enforcement isn't going to go after them for forged signatures.

But, you'd think Upper Deck and the other manufacturers WOULD take an interest in someone counterfeiting their licensed product. In my view, that is a much more viable avenue to make these crooks pay.
The same Upper Deck that got caught faking their own product?


Not likely.



I wonder if these cards are actually faked by the same people faking the autograph, or if they landed on a stockpile of in house fakes from UD?
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  #17  
Old 03-12-2019, 03:15 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7nohitter View Post
Chris,

Great work! Very informative write up. I've been wanting to add a Jeter autograph to my collection and I would have been fooled by this.
Thank you, Andrew.

I can understand those who aren't familiar with Jeter's autograph to get fooled by this.
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  #18  
Old 03-12-2019, 03:18 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Originally Posted by MGHPro View Post
Good job - thanks for posting .
Thank you, Matt.

I should posted that blog two months, but I guess better late than never.

Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 03-12-2019 at 03:18 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-12-2019, 03:19 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
The same Upper Deck that got caught faking their own product?


Not likely.



I wonder if these cards are actually faked by the same people faking the autograph, or if they landed on a stockpile of in house fakes from UD?
I agree.

Upper Deck does not care.

Steiner Sports doesn't care either.
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  #20  
Old 03-12-2019, 06:32 PM
chalupacollects chalupacollects is offline
Ti.m H.
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Default Another seller with same fake

Here is another listing where the lettering on card is off...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/382824833594

Safe to assume the auto is bad too...
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  #21  
Old 03-12-2019, 06:38 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
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Default Ebay seller Lyonhrt777

Here is an example of one Ebay seller who would list another one immediately after a previous auction ended.

Look at the dates. This is just one instance.



Jeter1995Lyon-11.jpg
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  #22  
Old 03-12-2019, 06:40 PM
chalupacollects chalupacollects is offline
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And another smh...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Upper-...kAAOSwB0hcYxiw

At least this seller took the item down and seemed concerned...
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Last edited by chalupacollects; 03-13-2019 at 09:55 AM. Reason: Update that listing was ended...
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  #23  
Old 03-12-2019, 06:49 PM
chalupacollects chalupacollects is offline
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Just noticed both items I listed have same BIN price of $199.... coincidence?
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  #24  
Old 03-12-2019, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalupacollects View Post
Now that Christopher has called out these fakes we will see a rise in them being listed/sold. From past personal experience otherwise good people will look to see if they have one. If they do some try to sell them before more people find out they are fake so they are not stuck with them.
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  #25  
Old 03-12-2019, 07:15 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Now that Christopher has called out these fakes we will see a rise in them being listed/sold. From past personal experience otherwise good people will look to see if they have one. If they do some try to sell them before more people find out they are fake so they are not stuck with them.
I initially wrote that I first observed these months ago, but being that I have been trying to ween myself away from exposing this garbage, I didn't do anything, but during the last two months I have witnessed a proliferation of these (because spring training has begun) and I felt like I had to do something.

People were buying them because of the Upper Deck COA on the back of the card and I knew something had to be done.
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  #26  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:47 PM
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I know these are fake. Great work. I do know collector/dealers that when Jeter played at the Arizona fall league while still in the minors handed him stacks of cards at a time and got over 100 signed cards of his over the course of the AFL season. So sometimes quantity alone can't judge things.
They did the same with Trout at instructional league. Usually these guys would never again sign in quantity but in the beginning some did.

Last edited by theshleps; 03-12-2019 at 08:48 PM.
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  #27  
Old 03-12-2019, 08:58 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theshleps View Post
I know these are fake. Great work. I do know collector/dealers that when Jeter played at the Arizona fall league while still in the minors handed him stacks of cards at a time and got over 100 signed cards of his over the course of the AFL season. So sometimes quantity alone can't judge things.
They did the same with Trout at instructional league. Usually these guys would never again sign in quantity but in the beginning some did.
Yep.

He signed a boatload of sigs back then.

And thank you, Michael.

Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 03-13-2019 at 11:21 AM.
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  #28  
Old 03-13-2019, 09:24 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfanNY View Post
Thank you for posting. I purchased one of the cards in your article. If it can be used as evidence by anyone willing to pursue this I will happily eat the money to see the people responsible get what is coming. I will follow up with a pm. As for a low end Jeter it was a a time a tough card to get. And I
like you said in article trusted the Upper deck hologram on the back.
Thanks I hope this goes somewhere.
You're welcome, Jonathan.

I hope we can do something about this.

I have no idea who the source is, but I can state that the first seller I observed listing these was Tntnorthnj.
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  #29  
Old 03-13-2019, 10:15 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper View Post
We know law enforcement isn't going to go after them for forged signatures.

But, you'd think Upper Deck and the other manufacturers WOULD take an interest in someone counterfeiting their licensed product. In my view, that is a much more viable avenue to make these crooks pay.
I've contacted Steiner Sports a half dozen times regarding threads like the one below.

Steiner Sports doesn't care.

If you also have to understand, that many of the sellers of forgeries, use those sales to purchase authentic autographs from Steiner and others.

Maybe Steiner Sports doesn't want to upset those people.

Shame on Steiner Sports for not protecting their name/product and for not protecting the buyers who think they're purchasing a Derek Jeter autograph with a Steiner Sports COA.
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  #30  
Old 03-13-2019, 10:53 AM
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hank you Christopher ,,,this will never end ,,
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  #31  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:23 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
I've contacted Steiner Sports a half dozen times regarding threads like the one below.

Steiner Sports doesn't care.

If you also have to understand, that many of the sellers of forgeries, use those sales to purchase authentic autographs from Steiner and others.

Maybe Steiner Sports doesn't want to upset those people.

Shame on Steiner Sports for not protecting their name/product and for not protecting the buyers who think they're purchasing a Derek Jeter autograph with a Steiner Sports COA.
I forgot to attach the link from the previous comment.

I've posted about a dozen threads like the one below and Steiner Sports doesn't care.


https://live.autographmagazine.com/f...ource=activity
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  #32  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:24 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjackson44 View Post
hank you Christopher ,,,this will never end ,,
Thank you, Octavio...

Ad you're right--This will never end.

If there's a way to scam, the scammers will find a way.
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  #33  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:33 AM
Mr. Zipper Mr. Zipper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
I forgot to attach the link from the previous comment.

I've posted about a dozen threads like the one below and Steiner Sports doesn't care.
I have also contacted Steiner and tagged them on social media with direct links to obvious fakes that had a Steiner hologram. Never got a response.

You'd think a company with the resources Steiner has could easily deploy legal resources to quickly stop any seller from offering an item with a counterfeit or unauthorized Steiner sticker. Puzzling why they do not protect their brand.
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  #34  
Old 03-13-2019, 12:03 PM
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I will also state that I have no doubt that some of the sellers of that garbage know exactly what they are selling!!!!!
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  #35  
Old 03-13-2019, 03:33 PM
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I examined the card I purchased from TNT and it us definitely a counterfeit card when you look at printing on the back none of the letters are clean all fuzzy from the dor pattern. most ear when you look at upper deck logo. I agree that selling one or two you might not have noticed but ten...
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  #36  
Old 03-13-2019, 04:55 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfanNY View Post
I examined the card I purchased from TNT and it us definitely a counterfeit card when you look at printing on the back none of the letters are clean all fuzzy from the dor pattern. most ear when you look at upper deck logo. I agree that selling one or two you might not have noticed but ten...
Those sellers got really greedy when they started listing them as if they were coming off an assembly line (looks like they are) and selling them like hotcakes.
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  #37  
Old 03-13-2019, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalupacollects View Post
And another smh...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Upper-...kAAOSwB0hcYxiw

At least this seller took the item down and seemed concerned...
That seller usually sells good stuff, so I have to assume they were fooled also.

Hopefully that seller will contact the person they purchased it from.
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  #38  
Old 03-14-2019, 06:55 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Default Koufax

Check out the below link for Sold Auctions on Sandy Koufax "2000 SP Chirography" autographs.

Some of these are from the same sellers who sold the Jeter forgeries.

I am not as versed in Sandy's autograph as some of you are, but some of these do not look good and neither do the cards.


For some reason the link isn't working, but if you do a search on "Sandy Koufax 2000 SP Autograph" in Completed/Sold auctions you'll find them.

Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 03-14-2019 at 07:33 PM.
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  #40  
Old 03-14-2019, 07:46 PM
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Default Sandy Koufax

Ebay seller Tntnorthnj has sold eight of these recently.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Upper-...p2047675.l2557




TNTKoufax-1.jpg

TNTKoufax-2.jpg
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  #41  
Old 03-14-2019, 08:48 PM
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They also seem to have a large supply of 2009 Harper autos, 2000 Kobe autos, 2003 mays autos, 1992 Ali autos, 1997 mays autos, 2001 Unitas autos, 2001 starr autos, 2003 pujols autos and 2000 Skybox Brady rookies to go along with the Jeter autos and 2017 judge blank back cards. Looks like thousands $$ per month in sales.
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  #42  
Old 03-14-2019, 08:55 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports View Post
They also seem to have a large supply of 2009 Harper autos, 2000 Kobe autos, 2003 mays autos, 1992 Ali autos, 1997 mays autos, 2001 Unitas autos, 2001 starr autos, 2003 pujols autos and 2000 Skybox Brady rookies to go along with the Jeter autos and 2017 judge blank back cards. Looks like thousands $$ per month in sales.
Yes they do, Adam.

I noticed the Ali on a so-called Classic card.

Thank you for the input, Adam.
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  #43  
Old 03-14-2019, 10:37 PM
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I have a personal stake in this. I purchased a card from them in early 2017. Here’s the receipt for $105 attached. This was 2 years ago.

I put the card away for a couple of months and didn’t think much of it since it was a pack certified card. Never crossed my mind that it wasn’t real until I took the card to BGS a couple of months later. They returned it to me and I was shocked. It was already past the date of possible return so I just wrote it off as a loss. It has nagged me ever since.

The timing of your post couldn’t be any more perfect. That card sat on a shelf in my store until today. I received a call this afternoon from the Hall of Fame. They are putting together a card exhibit and wanted an example of a counterfeit card to put in it. I dropped off the card with the rejection from BGS. I hope they put this card in their exhibit for everyone to see. It helps to put me at ease when I think that some good will come from it and I can consider it a donation to education.

Thank you for your post and your work on this matter. I am new to the boards but this is one of the reasons I joined. After seeing Mannys work with the T206 autos I thought this was a good place to keep up with the hobby and maybe add a thing or two. You have done a great amount of good in bringing this to light.

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Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
Yes they do, Adam.

I noticed the Ali on a so-called Classic card.

Thank you for the input, Adam.
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  #44  
Old 03-15-2019, 08:27 AM
chalupacollects chalupacollects is offline
Ti.m H.
Tim Hu,nt
 
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Seems most of the links above are showing NY/NJ sellers....to me looks like a little den of thieves now...
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  #45  
Old 03-15-2019, 09:19 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports View Post
I have a personal stake in this. I purchased a card from them in early 2017. Here’s the receipt for $105 attached. This was 2 years ago.

I put the card away for a couple of months and didn’t think much of it since it was a pack certified card. Never crossed my mind that it wasn’t real until I took the card to BGS a couple of months later. They returned it to me and I was shocked. It was already past the date of possible return so I just wrote it off as a loss. It has nagged me ever since.

The timing of your post couldn’t be any more perfect. That card sat on a shelf in my store until today. I received a call this afternoon from the Hall of Fame. They are putting together a card exhibit and wanted an example of a counterfeit card to put in it. I dropped off the card with the rejection from BGS. I hope they put this card in their exhibit for everyone to see. It helps to put me at ease when I think that some good will come from it and I can consider it a donation to education.

Thank you for your post and your work on this matter. I am new to the boards but this is one of the reasons I joined. After seeing Mannys work with the T206 autos I thought this was a good place to keep up with the hobby and maybe add a thing or two. You have done a great amount of good in bringing this to light.
Holy smokes, Adam--Thanks for posting that.

I had no idea these forged Jeter cards were around that long.

I've observed those forgeries on Ebay here and there, but being so involved in the Florida Forgeries, I really didn't pay attention until recently when I would notice four and five listed at one time by various NJ/NY sellers.
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  #46  
Old 03-15-2019, 09:20 AM
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7nohitter 7nohitter is offline
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And.rew Mil.ler
 
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Again, this is scary.

I'd be fooled by all of these pieces of garbage.
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  #47  
Old 03-15-2019, 09:40 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
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Originally Posted by 7nohitter View Post
Again, this is scary.

I'd be fooled by all of these pieces of garbage.
Sure is, Andrew.

And eventually, the buyers of those Jeter forged cards are going to discover they own forged counterfeit cards.
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  #48  
Old 03-15-2019, 09:41 AM
Mr. Zipper Mr. Zipper is offline
Steve Zarelli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalupacollects View Post
Seems most of the links above are showing NY/NJ sellers....to me looks like a little den of thieves now...
A ring in northern NJ that apparently has access to a commercial printing press.
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  #49  
Old 03-15-2019, 09:52 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
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Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper View Post
A ring in northern NJ that apparently has access to a commercial printing press.
Most likely.
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  #50  
Old 03-15-2019, 12:31 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
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This forged Jeter was sold by Ebay seller Lyonhrt777.

First, the auction itself and then a screenshot of the Negative Feedback posted by the buyer and then the reply from the seller.

Unbelievable.



lyon777Jeter-1.jpg


lyon777Jeter-2.JPG
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