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  #1  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:42 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Regarding the SOVEREIGN "apple green" back phenomena....some interesting stuff

The recognition of the SOVEREIGN 350 cards with the "apple green" backs is a recent phenomena to T206 collectors. It started with Art Martineau and Jim Rivera noting
the color difference of certain SOVEREIGN 350 cards. Rivera contacted me (circa 2008), since he was aware that I had a complete 402-card SOVEREIGN set.

I arrange the cards in all my T206 sets according to their Series (150, 350, 350/460, 460, etc.). Therefore....it became immediately evident to me, as I flipped thru the
pages of my album, that the apple green cards were exclusively associated with the 55 subjects in the 350/460 series. Furthermore, as I went thru the entire set scan-
ning the backs of all the cards, I discovered that the 6 Super-Prints (with SOVEREIGN 350 backs)....and the Joe Doyle, Red Kleinow (NY-catching), Simon Nichols (bat),
Bob Rhoades (right arm extended), and Frank Smith (white cap) were printed with apple green backs. Resulting in the grand total = 66 subjects.

I called Scot Reader regarding my observations. We arrived at the conclusion that this color change was American Lithographic's way of identifying the subjects from
their 350 Series, which they had intended to extend into their subsequent 460 Series. My point here is....that this discovery was quite a collaborative effort between
Net54er's.

For more info on this subject, check-out this Link to the thread posted Oct 2009, that first identifieded the apple green cards............
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ht=apple+green


............... Joe Doyle......see note ...............






1st group of 15 subjects..... Ames - Doolan



In the forthcoming posts I will continue displaying the remaining 45 subjects with the apple-green SOVEREIGN 350 backs.....stay tuned.


Here is the complete list of the 66 cards from my SOVEREIGN set whose backs were printed with the apple green colored ink...........

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Joe Doyle (arms over head)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Wash.-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (NY-catching)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
Nichols (bat)
O'Leary (hands/knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago-white cap)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
CYoung (glove)


Note......The Joe Doyle is an interesting card in this mix. A forthcoming post here will focus on his cards.


Comments and/or inputs are welcome.


TED Z

Last edited by tedzan; 01-21-2013 at 10:22 AM.
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  #2  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:52 PM
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DerekMichael DerekMichael is offline
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What an awesome discovery! You all did great work. Many Thanks.

Derek
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  #3  
Old 01-16-2013, 05:45 AM
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teetwoohsix teetwoohsix is offline
Clayton
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That was fun reading back through that old thread.

Are there actually three different tones of green with the Sovereign backs? I remember Jim R. responded in that thread that my Chase Sov. 460 was forrest green-but to me it looked more like those apple greens,,,,,,,so, the reason I ask if there are three shades of this green is because of the 350 series backs, there's that one that looks VERY dark. Are those the ones that are forrest green? Or, does the scanner just make it appear that dark?

The reason I ask is because out of the three Sovereign backed cards I have (still have the Chase 460 in the old thread),,,, none have that really dark Sov. 350 back. Here's the other two (I hope I'm making sense):

Sincerely, Clayton
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  #4  
Old 01-16-2013, 07:17 AM
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Abravefan11 Abravefan11 is offline
Tim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
I arrange the cards in all my T206 sets according to their Series (150, 350, 350/460, 460, etc.). It became immediately evident to me, as I flipped the pages of my album, that the apple green cards were exclusively associated with the 55 subjects in the 350/460 series.

Comments and/or inputs are welcome.

TED Z
Ted - A quick read of this thread, posted earlier in 2009 than the link you included, shows that it became immediately evident to you to look specifically at the 350/460 cards after Jim pointed you there. Your first line of post #27 says it all, but I won't pull it out of context.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=112571
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  #5  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:21 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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JIM"S POST #20....5/24/2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfc1909 View Post
thanks for all the kind words about the set.

Craig & Scot & Ted- more research needs to be done on the Sovereign 350 cards. We need to know what fronts come on the apple green and if the same front can be found with both colors.
It is kanda interesting to see if 350-460 cards are the ones with this back. maybe just an ink problem, but it will be fun researching. Maybe not an ink problem.

MY RESPONSE, POST #25....5/25/2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
As I said in my last post, I think you are on to some thing in your "apple green" observation....regarding the 55 Subjects
found in the 350/460 series of the other T-brands.

For now, I am going by memory; however, I may have a lot more than 8 apple green cards in my Sovereign set. When I
am home later today, I will check-out my set and provide you with a more definitive accounting of my apple green cards.


TED Z

Tim

I was away on 5/24/2009 when Jim contacted me (as noted in the two POSTS cited here from that thread).

When I returned home that evening I went through my SOVEREIGN set. And, as I have stated......"It became immediately evident to me (that the cards with apple green
backs were the 350/460 subjects).

Until that point in this discussion this fact was not certain, as it was based on just a sampling of SOVEREIGN cards. Furthermore, the thinking was that these cards were
either printed with the apple green color and/or the darker green color....or, they were simply faded backs. It was just a guessing game at that point.

We might still be conjecturing over the significance of the apple green cards, if it I had not completed the SOVEREIGN set....which confirmed the connection between the
apple green cards and the 350/460 series subjects. Furthermore, my set revealed 11 more apple green cards, namely the 6 super-prints with their SOVEREIGN 350 backs;
and, the Joe Doyle, Red Kleinow (NY), Simon Nichols, Bob Rhoades, and Frank Smith (white cap) cards.



This continuing effort of yours (grasping at any thing) to discredit me has become tiresome.

Part of the reason that I posted this thread is to show members on this forum that when we combine expertise, we can solve any "mystery" in this hobby.


TED Z
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  #6  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:28 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Regarding the SOVEREIGN "apple green" back phenomena....some interesting stuff

For comparison

Apple green backs of 350/460 series cards

Green back 350-only series cards



TED Z
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  #7  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:56 AM
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Thanks ted to share your knowledge !
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  #8  
Old 01-16-2013, 12:33 PM
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DerekMichael DerekMichael is offline
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When I was younger, I had never actually seen a T206 before, but I saw a green Cobb in the Beckett magazine one month. I did not know about the size, or the tobacco backs or anything, all I knew was that one day I wanted a green Cobb, and BADLY! Never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined all of the things that go into this particular set, and it is truly mind blowing, but it soooooo interesting, and so unique to any other hobby I have ever had. Collecting these cards has actually brought me closer to my Dad believe it or not.

I think you all do really great work, and I just want to thank all of you for opening my eyes to something so cool. You all do a really great job, and a true service to our hobby in general.

Thank you so much to all of you!

Derek
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  #9  
Old 01-16-2013, 03:05 PM
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teetwoohsix teetwoohsix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
For comparison

Apple green backs of 350/460 series cards

Green back 350-only series cards



TED Z
OK, I'm sure I didn't explain myself right.......The bottom card in this picture, the Green back 350-only series (the one at the bottom),,,,looks darker than what I usually consider the "normal Sov. Green", which I consider the two cards I posted in my first post.

Then, you have the "Apple Green",,,,so, is that darker one a "third color of green" or is it just the scan? I have limited experience with Soveriegn backed cards, I only have three and have never had one of those "really dark" ones.

I'm just looking for a little clarification, and would appreciate the help. Thanks.

Sincerely, Clayton
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  #10  
Old 01-16-2013, 03:54 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Clayton

There are varying degrees of the green color on the SOVEREIGN cards. Typically, the cards in the 350-only series appear to have a deeper green back.

The "apple green" (350/460 series subjects) is a distinctive shade of yellow-green, that is un-mistakeable.

The 150 backs can vary in their shades of green.

The 460-only cards usually appear to have a lighter shade of green; however, other 460 backs are a darker shade of green.........









TED Z
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