NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-09-2010, 09:01 PM
thekingofclout's Avatar
thekingofclout thekingofclout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,958
Default PSA set to encapsulate "TYPE" Photographs & Signed photos as well...

This will be a tremendous boon to this sector of the hobby, no doubt about it. Certainly a step in the right direction of having auction houses slabbing their photos instead of selling them "AS IS".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Protective holders for certified original photographs and for the grading of autographs on 8X10 and slightly smaller-size photos will be used by PSA/DNA Authentication Services beginning June 14

The new holders are designed to make it easier for collectors and dealers to organize and store their photos.

“We’ve listened to what collectors and dealers wanted, and this new holder should take collecting of original photos to a new level,” said Joe Orlando, President of PSA/DNA, a division of Collectors Universe, Inc.

“Hard plastic holders used for trading cards are too cumbersome for large-sized items, such as photos. So, we’ve devised a semi-rigid holder that has a tamper-evident seal, similar to holders that are successfully used and widely accepted for certified paper money. This new holder is sturdy enough for safe storage but thin enough so you can easily frame certified photos for display on a wall, desk or table.”

The new holders are designed to accommodate 8X10 photographs. However, slightly smaller sizes also may be suitable for encapsulation and, if appropriate, possibly other “flats,” such as a one-page letter. For original photographs, the labels contain a pertinent, brief summary of the photo’s significance.

“Just like the summary information included on the holders for PSA/DNA-certified tickets, the clean and simple summary will make it easier to understand the significance of each certified photo and can help attract new collectors,” said Orlando.

“This is perfect for the authentication of original photos and for grading the autographs on any photos. Just as the introduction of special holders helped improve the market for certified cards, tickets and unopened packs, these new photo holders will be more appealing for collectors to store or display their pictures and for dealers to store in their inventories,” he predicted.

“There is no doubt that if a collectible can be encapsulated inside of a PSA holder, the collectible tends to become more marketable. The holder creates more liquidity, it makes the collectible easier to sell via the Internet, it helps protect the collectible and provide better presentation.”

One of the first certified photographs placed in a new PSA/DNA holder is an original Type I print of one of the sports world’s most famous images, “The Babe Bows Out.” It was shot by New York newspaper photographer Nat Fein on June 13, 1948 at Yankee Stadium when the ailing Babe Ruth was greeted by the crowd the day his jersey number, 3, was retired. The iconic photo was awarded a Pulitzer Prize.

“Only a few Type I photos of this dramatic image are known, and this particular one has a PSA/DNA-certified autograph by photographer Nat Fein. It is being offered by SCP Auctions in an auction on June 10,” said Orlando.

PSA/DNA certified photos are classified as Type I, II, III or IV, a system based on determination of the photograph’s originality or reproduction, development process and publication date. Type I is a first generation photo that was developed from the original negative within approximately two years of when the picture was taken.

Additional information about the PSA/DNA photo certification process can be found here.

——————————————-
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-09-2010, 09:29 PM
Ladder7's Avatar
Ladder7 Ladder7 is offline
Steve F
St.eve F@llet.ti
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,007
Default

Timely idea, thanks. Did you see a fee schedule anywhere?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-09-2010, 09:37 PM
prewarsports prewarsports is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,354
Default

My question is always with back stamp dates. They are a great tool in so many ways, but can also be very deceiving. I have seen type 1 photos from Bain and others that were stamped decades later by news services and archives. I have then seen other similar photos stamped a few years after the publication date that are absolutely type 1 photos that were simply stamped by a library or archive when they got the photo. So a 1910 photo that was made in 1910 and not date stamped could have been given to a different archive that stamps their photos in 1918 and all of the sudden it is a type 2 because of the date stamp.

I have said before and I will again, the 2 year thing a totally arbitrary and random number which means absolutely nothing. A photo expert can tell whether a photo is of the right time period or not and very few will have the right documentation to certify them as original type 1 photos.

As a side what will happen once Type 1 photos start selling for huge premiums are
1. Fake Back Stamps and date stampings
2. Obliteration of legit stampings that might be 3-4 years later to pass a photo within the 2 year period
3. Additional photo alterations to try and cash in on this 2 year timeline.

I like the idea but hate the 2 year limit for a type 1.

Rhys
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-09-2010, 09:41 PM
LEIDEMEG LEIDEMEG is offline
George Leidemer
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 250
Default I love the new holders

Just got this Sugar Ray signed photo back. I was impressed by the holder
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sugar ray robinson photo front.jpg (78.9 KB, 311 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-09-2010, 10:30 PM
ethicsprof ethicsprof is offline
Barry Arnold
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pensacola,Florida
Posts: 2,715
Default encapsulate

Jimmy,
this is great news!
in the last months, i've won(Legendary Auct.'09) a Conlon Type 1 of L. Tannehill which was the
basis for the Tannehill T206 and(Legendary Auct.'10) a Thompson Type 1 of Buck Weaver
sliding by Art Fletcher into second with Herzog looking on---game 3 of the
'17 World Series. Both came with PSA/DNA letters of authenticity but I am considering the encapsulation now.
I wonder if you get a break in the fees if the letters are already in hand.

all the best,

barry
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-10-2010, 12:48 AM
sbfinley's Avatar
sbfinley sbfinley is offline
Steven Finley
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Nashville, Tn
Posts: 1,182
Default

Out of curiosity, where do original press photos fall in regard to type?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-10-2010, 03:44 AM
thekingofclout's Avatar
thekingofclout thekingofclout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,958
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbfinley View Post
Out of curiosity, where do original press photos fall in regard to type?
Mostly TYPE I Steve, but the Entertainment Industry would restrike (TYPE II) for many reasons. a) The Beatles came out with a new record. b) A film was being re-released several years later like "Pride of the Yankees", "Gone with the Wind", or "The Wizard of Oz". c) Maybe a milestone in a popular actor's career. etc. etc.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-10-2010, 04:05 AM
thekingofclout's Avatar
thekingofclout thekingofclout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,958
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by prewarsports View Post
My question is always with back stamp dates. They are a great tool in so many ways, but can also be very deceiving. I have seen type 1 photos from Bain and others that were stamped decades later by news services and archives. I have then seen other similar photos stamped a few years after the publication date that are absolutely type 1 photos that were simply stamped by a library or archive when they got the photo. So a 1910 photo that was made in 1910 and not date stamped could have been given to a different archive that stamps their photos in 1918 and all of the sudden it is a type 2 because of the date stamp.

I have said before and I will again, the 2 year thing a totally arbitrary and random number which means absolutely nothing. A photo expert can tell whether a photo is of the right time period or not and very few will have the right documentation to certify them as original type 1 photos.

As a side what will happen once Type 1 photos start selling for huge premiums are
1. Fake Back Stamps and date stampings
2. Obliteration of legit stampings that might be 3-4 years later to pass a photo within the 2 year period
3. Additional photo alterations to try and cash in on this 2 year timeline.

I like the idea but hate the 2 year limit for a type 1.

Rhys
You are spot-on Rhys and I completely agree with you that Two years is cutting it too thin. Common sense would tell me that a print off the original negative in 1907 is really no different than one in 1917. Same process, like paper, and most likely developed by the same photographer.

So, I would like to see a staggered system in place. For instance, photos from 1900-1920 would have a TEN year window. 1921-1935 a 5-7 year window. I drew the line at 1935 due to the advent of wire photo machines came into use in 1935. 1936-1960 it would be 3-4 years, and 1961-1980 2-3 years as laser photos took over from there.


Now this is just off the top of my head but I'm sure you get what I'm driving at.

Regardless, it's nice to see this long overdue step being taken by PSA.

I would love to hear everybody's take on this...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-10-2010, 06:42 AM
GrayGhost's Avatar
GrayGhost GrayGhost is offline
Scott
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Connecticut.
Posts: 6,755
Default

On some photos, minus date stamps or captions etc. I still don't know how you could tell say a "blank photo" as a "type 1". This whole thing to me is confusing, but I guess it matters a lot to those who collect for value or deal in them, and obviously for rarity in some cases.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-10-2010, 07:50 AM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 7,247
Default

CGC was experimenting with a similar endeavor for vintage photos a few years ago, with a softer holder similar to a thick Card Saver but sonically sealed. They did a big experimental job for Jay Parrino's The Mint then dropped it. I contacted them to try and get some of my stuff encapsulated and was told that they'd decided against the service. Too bad, since it was nice to have the photos in a thinner holder instead of a monster slab.

Regardless of the photo typing thing it does seem like a needed service and a rather nice way to display and protect autographed photos. I might just send them some of mine. What is the cost?
__________________
Please visit my web site: www.americasgreatboxingcards.com
So... move out of your studio apartment! And try speaking to a real live woman, and GROW THE HELL UP! I mean, it's just baseball cards dammit, IT'S JUST BASEBALL CARDS!
10% off any BIN in my eBay store (user name: exhibitman) for N54 members buying direct from me through this site instead, just PM me.

Last edited by Exhibitman; 06-10-2010 at 07:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-10-2010, 08:53 AM
Lordstan's Avatar
Lordstan Lordstan is offline
M@rk V3l@rd3
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 3,059
Default

I think it's a no brainer for autographed photos of moderate worth.

I have a couple of issues primarily for press/news photos.
First is cost.
I am not, by any means, a whale in the collecting community. To spend $20-$30 per pic can cut into the actual collecting budget especially if you have a lot of pictures. Granted this is offset for pictures above a certain value, but what should be the cutoff? It is worth encapsulating a pic worth $100, $200, $500, $1000?
Second is the whole to slab vs not to slab discussion that seems to be renewed every year or so on the card side. Does a picture lose some of its charm if you can't hold it to appreciate it's physical characteristics like "game use", or texture of the paper, etc?
Third is a question about the slugs.
Part of the enjoyment if being able to read the story about the picture from the slug. For many pictures the slug is facing out, wholly attached to the back. The problem, is that on many, the slug is attached in an offset way where is hangs off the picture facing either direction.
Will they put the pic in a larger size holder so the flap is unfolded and readable? If so, how will they assure the picture doesn't slide all over the place in the holder?

Mark
__________________
My signed 1934 Goudey set(in progress).
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjFuyogy

Other interests/sets/collectibles.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/96571220@N08/albums

My for sale or trade photobucket album
https://flic.kr/s/aHsk7c1SRL

Last edited by Lordstan; 06-10-2010 at 08:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-10-2010, 09:05 AM
sphere and ash's Avatar
sphere and ash sphere and ash is offline
P@u1 R31fer$0n
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 219
Default Say It Ain't So: Slabbing Photos

Am I alone in thinking that slabbing photographs is an awful idea? I pray no one ever 'slabs' an Ansel Adams or a Walker Evans print; and I pray no one slabs a Horner or a Conlon. There is a good reason this has never caught on in the vintage photography market: it is not a good way to store prints, and it inhibits subsequent examination and appreciation (does your framer frame the slab?).

There are fantastic archival materials available to store prints (try Talasonline.com) and people with far more expertise at very reasonable prices who can answer questions about your print if you have reason to be concerned.

A slabbed photo will always be worth less to me--I have to pay someone to take it out of the slab.

Apologies to anyone in the thread who has an economic interest in PSA.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-10-2010, 09:21 AM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 5,473
Default

I'm very much on the fence about slabbing photos as well. I've gotten used to it for cards, but still feel that too many of the cards get slabbed.

I also have some concerns about the slabbing from an archival perspective. Preserving photos is somewhat complex, and I'm not sure the slab is the way to go. And for some cards, I think it may actually be damaging in the long run. It looks like the holder in in contact with the photo surface, something I usually try to avoid with any better photos I've got.

Steve B
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-10-2010, 12:22 PM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is offline
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,188
Default

I'm completely against it as well. I collect these things for their aesthetic beauty and interesting subject matter. To me, a well composed photo and a PSA Bar Code will clash, and in no way compliment each other.

I fully understand the opposing stance of those who like it and feel it's necessary to the hobby. I am just not one of them. Neither side is "right or wrong"... it's simply a personal preference.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-10-2010, 12:40 PM
GrayGhost's Avatar
GrayGhost GrayGhost is offline
Scott
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Connecticut.
Posts: 6,755
Default

Too bad that these companies couldnt send you a letter of authentication w a picture of the front/back of your own photo on it, designating type and all. You could then just keep the letter w it, or if framed, it could be inside the frame or something.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-10-2010, 02:31 PM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
Barry Sloate
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 8,079
Default

I'm also from the school that says too many things are being slabbed. I think soon everything wil be slabbed. Is that a good look for the hobby?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-10-2010, 03:58 PM
mr2686 mr2686 is offline
Mike Rich@rds0n
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ca
Posts: 2,213
Default

Count me in as one who hates to see things slabbed. Now, that may be because my collection is like a black hole...nothing ever leaves so I'm not worried about the resale value, but also I just don't like the look.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-10-2010, 04:14 PM
19cbb's Avatar
19cbb 19cbb is offline
Jimmy
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 310
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrysloate View Post
I'm also from the school that says too many things are being slabbed. I think soon everything wil be slabbed. Is that a good look for the hobby?
+1
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-10-2010, 04:23 PM
Lordstan's Avatar
Lordstan Lordstan is offline
M@rk V3l@rd3
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 3,059
Default

As an addition to my previous comments.

On this board, we have no need because between Jimmy, Dr Cycleback, Rhys, and what seems like a million others, we have our own in house authentication service. The staff is friendly and enthusiatic. We are not only excited about our own pickups, but other's as well. Everyone pitches in for our mutual benefit.

OK, I finished the cool-aid now.

Mark
__________________
My signed 1934 Goudey set(in progress).
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjFuyogy

Other interests/sets/collectibles.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/96571220@N08/albums

My for sale or trade photobucket album
https://flic.kr/s/aHsk7c1SRL

Last edited by Lordstan; 06-10-2010 at 04:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-10-2010, 04:35 PM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is offline
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,188
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayGhost View Post
Too bad that these companies couldnt send you a letter of authentication w a picture of the front/back of your own photo on it, designating type and all. You could then just keep the letter w it, or if framed, it could be inside the frame or something.
Scott...

PSA does this. Here's their letter for an item I just won in Mile High... Type 1 photo of Hank Aaron's 3,000th Hit (I was at this game as a kid in Crosley Field.... yay!)

Not sure, however, if they photograph the backs of the photos for their COAs (if not, they should!) To your point, I much prefer this avenue to the potential slabbing of the beatiful photo.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg aaron.jpg (29.8 KB, 161 views)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-10-2010, 05:42 PM
Hankphenom Hankphenom is offline
Hank Thomas
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 892
Default Ugh!

Sorry, Jimmy, I have to disagree. This will benefit the whales of photography collecting and PSA, and cost everybody else a lot of money, in my humble opinion. As a longtime collector and dealer of vintage photography, I just don't see the need for this service. Unlike cards and autographs, there's never been an issue of forgery that I'm aware of, and trimming is not a problem. And keeping a collection in binders of PVC-free sheets is perfect for both storage and viewing. In your capacities as collector and dealer, how many times have you needed someone else to tell you anything you don't already know about the photos you handle? With only a tiny % of photos I've dealt with has there been some question as to the type or vintage, and I don't think the "authenticators" at PSA will do any better than you and I, and maybe worse. As far as grading is concerned, all you need is your eyes. The market has always "graded" photos by the price, now the grade will drive the price instead. Card and autograph grading, although correcting some abuses, turned collecting from fun to an anal-compulsive contest. Now grading will do the same to photos and everything else it touches. Yuck.
Hank Thomas
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-11-2010, 05:08 AM
thekingofclout's Avatar
thekingofclout thekingofclout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,958
Default

Good to hear from you Hank. Been a long time.

Just to clarify one issue...the sky is not falling.

Also, PSA will not be grading photos in any way, shape, or form. For those that wish their photos to be graded, Beckett will do so.

Regards, Jimmy

Last edited by thekingofclout; 06-11-2010 at 05:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-11-2010, 10:49 AM
Hankphenom Hankphenom is offline
Hank Thomas
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thekingofclout View Post
Good to hear from you Hank. Been a long time.

Just to clarify one issue...the sky is not falling.

Also, PSA will not be grading photos in any way, shape, or form. For those that wish their photos to be graded, Beckett will do so.

Regards, Jimmy
I wasn't trying to be Chicken Little, just expressing my opinion on something I care about. Seems like a solution without a problem, but maybe I can be convinced. So tell me, who are going to be the beneficiaries here? And are you really looking forward to having all your beautiful photos encased in heavy plastic surrounded by a lot of color graphics? But most importantly for those on this board, will you still be able to start those great threads for the rest of us to enjoy?
Hank
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-11-2010, 02:12 PM
David Atkatz's Avatar
David Atkatz David Atkatz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,804
Default

It is certainly a "solution without a problem." No one is printing photos today, and passing them off as "Type I." (Also a ridiculous and completely arbitrary concept, invented by dealers to fleece more customers. Either a photo was printed and used roughly when it was taken, or it was reprinted later. One year later, two years later, five years later? In general, no way to tell. Twenty years later? Yeah, you can determine that.)

PSA is not in business to "help the collector." PSA is in business to make money. And, by its very nature PSA's business will dry up (how many times can you resubmit the same card?), unless it comes up with new items to slab.
Autographs, checks (checks, fer chrissakes--do you really need PSA to tell you a check is genuine?), and now photos.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-11-2010, 06:36 PM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is offline
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,188
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Atkatz View Post
It is certainly a "solution without a problem." No one is printing photos today, and passing them off as "Type I." (Also a ridiculous and completely arbitrary concept, invented by dealers to fleece more customers. Either a photo was printed and used roughly when it was taken, or it was reprinted later. One year later, two years later, five years later? In general, no way to tell. Twenty years later? Yeah, you can determine that.)

PSA is not in business to "help the collector." PSA is in business to make money. And, by its very nature PSA's business will dry up (how many times can you resubmit the same card?), unless it comes up with new items to slab.
Autographs, checks (checks, fer chrissakes--do you really need PSA to tell you a check is genuine?), and now photos.
Completely agree.... and when PSA's business does dry up (and they ultimately go out of business) how much clout will those slabs really carry?

When PSA is no longer a driving force, who will care whether a card was arbitrarily graded a "9" instead of an "8". The joke will be on the guy who paid twice as much money for the "9" (even though the "8" might well be nicer in appearance).
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-11-2010, 07:13 PM
jbsports33's Avatar
jbsports33 jbsports33 is offline
Jimmy
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 1,256
Default PSA set to encapsulate "TYPE" Photographs & Signed photos as well

I will most likley give this try at some point, always like new ideas in the hobby

Jimmy
__________________
“Devoted to Bringing Quality Vintage Sports Cards and Memorabilia to the Hobby”
http://www.jbsportsauctions.com
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-12-2010, 12:50 AM
Scott Garner's Avatar
Scott Garner Scott Garner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 5,399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Atkatz View Post
It is certainly a "solution without a problem." No one is printing photos today, and passing them off as "Type I." (Also a ridiculous and completely arbitrary concept, invented by dealers to fleece more customers. Either a photo was printed and used roughly when it was taken, or it was reprinted later. One year later, two years later, five years later? In general, no way to tell. Twenty years later? Yeah, you can determine that.)

PSA is not in business to "help the collector." PSA is in business to make money. And, by its very nature PSA's business will dry up (how many times can you resubmit the same card?), unless it comes up with new items to slab.
Autographs, checks (checks, fer chrissakes--do you really need PSA to tell you a check is genuine?), and now photos.
Right on, David! I have to totally agree with you on this one. IMHO this slabbing thing is getting way out of hand. PSA authenticating checks, now photos- yikes! Personally if I find an item that I particularly like that has been entombed, I crack the SOB open so I don't have to look at the eyesore in my collection.

Last edited by Scott Garner; 06-12-2010 at 07:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-13-2010, 03:00 PM
GKreindler's Avatar
GKreindler GKreindler is offline
Graig Kreindler
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 1,406
Default

I think there's a lot of validity to what David just said. Though PSA can certainly be noble in their causes, it is indeed a business first (as are most ventures in this hobby), and I don't think they would have signed on if they didn't think it could be profitable. And, I feel like in the end, the money does have to be in the mix to an extent.

I'm sure PSA wants to be the best at what they do in the hobby. With that in mind, I'm sure that Marshall and Yee will be responsible for adding a lot of legitimacy to the photo collecting through this venture. What's interesting is that it seems to me like the whole slabbing thing is more about educating people about what they're buying than it is making a buck. Most of the photo collectors I know are much more into the idea of bringing interest into their corner of the hobby for educational reasons, rather than financial. I'm sure in the end, there has to be a balance of noble causes and financial goals, but I guess the $60,000 question is, "when does it end?"

About six months ago, I heard from a collector of really high-end memorabilia that he was approached with the idea of slabbing and authenticating paintings. I don't know which company this was, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that it was PSA. If that was indeed true, it's bound to raise the same questions. As an artist, I would be appalled by that idea. But at the same time, maybe it would open my work up to a larger audience, and legitimize it for people I never could have reached otherwise.

Take this all with a grain of salt - just thought I'd give my two cents.

Graig
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-14-2010, 01:25 PM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 7,247
Default

I can't believe I'm actually justifying PSA'S services, but....

I and many others were negative about 3rd party grading when PSA first came up. To a large extent I still feel that way about high grade postwar cards. So I'm with many of you philosophically in terms of concern about plastic slab and label collectors being more concerned with the holder than the item. That said, there is definitely a place in the hobby for the service in at least two ways:

--Internet/Ebay sales: As is the case with cards, when I buy a graded card from a reputable service I stand a very good chance of getting what I bought. If people want to collect photos without amassing years of experience in the nuances or want to deal with Ebay purchases with reasonable reassurance as to what they get, this will help.

--Preservation/Protection/Display: Storing photos in sheets is an imperfect solution--too much movement and flex for some items--and the top loaders that are available are not archival quality. My compromise has been to put the photo in an archival sleeve then into an oversized top loader, which means I look at the image through two layers of plastic that isn't that clear anyway--not a great solution from an enjoyment perspective. I also don't particularly like framing vintage autographed photos and putting them on the walls. Great way to wreck an autograph, especlally in a less than museum quality lighting situation. And if I want to display something temporarily then take it down, what do I do w/it--that framed item is a real storage nightmare. Not to mention the cost of a good frame-up, which far exceeds the cost of a slab and thus is not practical for a lot of items.
__________________
Please visit my web site: www.americasgreatboxingcards.com
So... move out of your studio apartment! And try speaking to a real live woman, and GROW THE HELL UP! I mean, it's just baseball cards dammit, IT'S JUST BASEBALL CARDS!
10% off any BIN in my eBay store (user name: exhibitman) for N54 members buying direct from me through this site instead, just PM me.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-14-2010, 07:24 PM
thekingofclout's Avatar
thekingofclout thekingofclout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,958
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
I can't believe I'm actually justifying PSA'S services, but....

--Internet/Ebay sales: As is the case with cards, when I buy a graded card from a reputable service I stand a very good chance of getting what I bought. If people want to collect photos without amassing years of experience in the nuances or want to deal with Ebay purchases with reasonable reassurance as to what they get, this will help.
Perfectly put Exhibitman, thank you. Just remember guys, if you don't like the way a photo looks once you've bought a slabbed image... CUT IT OUT! That's what I would do.

Thanks to all for your thoughts and comments. Regards, Jimmy

Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06-14-2010, 10:06 PM
mr2686 mr2686 is offline
Mike Rich@rds0n
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ca
Posts: 2,213
Default

Soooooo, just so we're clear...I'm going to probably be charged a premium price to purchase a slabbed and graded photo, then take it out of the slab because it looks ugly. And then, if I want to resell it somewhere down the line, I'll either be charged to reslab it or take less for it because it's not slabbed? Somewhere down the line this hobby jumped the shark.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-14-2010, 10:32 PM
GrayGhost's Avatar
GrayGhost GrayGhost is offline
Scott
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Connecticut.
Posts: 6,755
Default

I remember the days no cards were in holders. Its so ridiculous. The only thing I ever thought they were good for was detecting altered cards/counterfeits. People would look at a card and decide what the grade was, and a potential customer could agree or not. The Good old days.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-15-2010, 05:31 AM
thekingofclout's Avatar
thekingofclout thekingofclout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,958
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2686 View Post
Count me in as one who hates to see things slabbed. Now, that may be because my collection is like a black hole...nothing ever leaves so I'm not worried about the resale value, but also I just don't like the look.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2686 View Post
Soooooo, just so we're clear...I'm going to probably be charged a premium price to purchase a slabbed and graded photo, then take it out of the slab because it looks ugly. And then, if I want to resell it somewhere down the line, I'll either be charged to reslab it or take less for it because it's not slabbed? Somewhere down the line this hobby jumped the shark.

Well Mike. PSA's slabs have NOT been released as of yet and the one shown earlier on this thread is NOT the kind they will use for their photos. So 'we really don't know what they will look like yet.

Also...PSA will NOT be grading photos, only authenticating them.

Regarding cutting them out of their holders, my intention was to say that if you don't like they way they look, simply cut them out.

I'm also confused as earlier you said "my collection is like a black hole...nothing ever leaves so I'm not worried about the resale value" so it shouldn't have any effect on you regardless. In closing, I would think that for you, it's best if you just buy raw photos and save yourself from the headaches.

Best, Jimmy
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-15-2010, 07:41 AM
53Browns's Avatar
53Browns 53Browns is offline
Bill
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 632
Default

Hi gang, I am very new to the forum and also new to vintage collecting. Can someone please tell me what a "type" photo is and also what the difference between a "type 1" and a "type 2" is? Thanks in advance!
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-15-2010, 09:12 AM
mr2686 mr2686 is offline
Mike Rich@rds0n
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ca
Posts: 2,213
Default

Well Jimmy, I shouldn't have said nothing ever leaves...for the most part, that is correct though. However, with all the opportunities to trade and sell on this board to upgrade important parts of my collection, I have found that my philosophy on that is slowly changing. It's obvious from your remarks that you
are heavily in favor of slabbing and it's no secret that you have a large collection of Type1's, so whether for collecting or investments, that would obviously work well for you. With that said, if you think that slabbing for authenticity is where it will stop, I think you're wrong. But no matter, if everyone wants to try and get all gem mint 10 type 1 photos just because some organization, that probably has less experience than you says so, well than go for it. I'll just take my little pat on the head and go collect raw photos like a good little boy.

Last edited by mr2686; 06-15-2010 at 09:15 AM. Reason: update
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-15-2010, 09:46 AM
sphere and ash's Avatar
sphere and ash sphere and ash is offline
P@u1 R31fer$0n
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 219
Default Reply to Bill

To answer your question: there is no such thing as a Type I or Type II photo. You can spend an entire lifetime working in the photography department at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, MOMA or the Getty and never once hear those words uttered.

All you need to know is whether a photograph is 'vintage,' which is to say that it was printed around the time the negative was produced. There is no specific time limit--it could be within 1, 5 or 10 years of the negative. There is usually no way to date a print so precisely; materials just did not change that quickly. The point is that the print should have been made close enough in time to have been printed with the same materials and artistic intention as a print done contemporaneously.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-15-2010, 10:25 AM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is offline
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,188
Default

I personally find it frustrating when the so called "Graders" know less than the collector who submits the item. I won't get into that here, but suffice it to say that it will be best if PSA simply authenticates the photos without trying to grade them (as they are currently promising).

I really feel disillusioned, seeing cards with a minute speck of paper loss that graded a 2 or 3 (when everything else it perfect). The whole grading process is preposterously subjective.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and this saying applies to vintage photos more so than any category I can imagine. I do see a need for the service (for those who cannot determine authenticity themselves) but I won't personally utilize it. People collect for different reasons, and there is no right or wrong. Those who don't like it should simply not use it.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-15-2010, 01:18 PM
drc drc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,621
Default

I'm the photo advisor to Beckett and I don't use the terms Type I etc. If someone at Beckett says Type II, I sometimes have to look up what it means as I've forgotten.

Type I, Type II etc is was a system I think devised by PSA to label photos. All one really has to know is type I means original.

I would like note what I do at Beckett. I don't physically handle or assign labels to photos, just occasionally answer questions about tough photos. Beckett is in Dallas and I'm in Seattle. I did originally meet the folks at Beckett in person before they started.

I always am happy give advice via email to collectors, and often do about photos. Don't worry I'm not a marketer and don't make commission. In fact, the head of grading at Beckett said one specific reason they asked me to be adviser is I was known in the hobby who was impartial, judging things on the facts and not having alterior motives. To prove this, I will state I've seen PSA authenticated photos and I thought the LOA's description were accurate, I think the Mastro Guide is good and I've already stated I'm not a fan of grading photos (authenticating is fine). I've never owned, bought or sold an entombed photo and have owned perhaps 8 professionally graded cards in my entire life. I've advised REA on photographs, but have never won or consigned anything to their auctions. I did bid once, but was probably outbid by the next day! REA's stuff is too expensive!

There are a number of other folks on this sitie who are knowledgeable about photos and can offer sage advice on that wirephoto or tintype.

David : webiste

Last edited by drc; 06-15-2010 at 01:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:24 AM.


ebay GSB