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  #381  
Old 05-21-2018, 08:46 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noy View Post
I assume the tragic event in question was Carl Mays hitting and killing Ray Chapman with a pitch, but I have no idea what the foreshadowing event might have been. Interested in finding out.
Noy

Your answer for the 1st question is correct....Ray Chapman died Aug 17, 1920 after having been struck by a ball pitched by Carl Mays the previous day.

Stay tuned for the story regarding the 2nd question. You'll find it very interesting.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 05-22-2018 at 12:28 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #382  
Old 05-22-2018, 07:21 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theorys...New TRIVIA Quiz, 1st correct answer wins T206

Well, is this quiz that tough......or is there just no interest in this topic ? ?

Come on, some of you guys on this forum are pretty damn smart, so I'm puzzled that no one has offered an answer here.

Noy has got us off to a good start with Ray Chapman. I'll give you guys 2 more hours to figure out the answer.


Trust me, you will find the final answer quite thought-provoking.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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Last edited by tedzan; 05-23-2018 at 07:58 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #383  
Old 05-22-2018, 07:54 PM
t206kid t206kid is online now
Jay
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Did a player get struck by lightning during a game? I vaguely recall that happened around the time Chapman passed away
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  #384  
Old 05-22-2018, 09:22 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Hi Jay

That may have happened, but it's not the answer to this quiz.


TED Z

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  #385  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theorys...New TRIVIA Quiz, 1st correct answer wins T206

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post

Approx. 12 weeks before a tragic event in BB....there was an occurrence in Griffith Stadium which eerily portends this tragic event.

QUIZ

#1....What "tragic event" am I referring to ?

#2....can you describe this occurrence in Washington ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

On May 26, 1920 Ray Chapman was at bat vs Walter Johnson (who was pitching in relief) in the late innings. The fog started rolling into Griffith Stadium.
Chapman, who usually crowded the plate, had two quick strikes against him. At that point he stepped out of the batter's box and told the Umpire that he
cannot see the ball. He refused to face another pitch from Walter Johnson for fear of his life. The Umpire insisted he get back in the batters box.

Then Walter Johnson approached the Umpire, handed him the ball, and told him he was done pitching.

Now, I ask you....is this occurrence some sort of strange omen....or what ?


TED Z

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  #386  
Old 05-24-2018, 08:40 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *







This topic has intrigued me ever since I started collecting T206's in 1981. My following theories regarding this subject is based on my experience collecting uncut sheets
of Goudey's, Play Ball's, Leaf's, Bowman's, & Topps cards. Also, I have written articles on uncut sheets in The Baseball Cards Magazine, SCD, VCBC, and Old Cardboard.

So, I will start with American Lithographic's (ALC) original printing of the T206 cards (circa Spring/Summer 1909). ALC operated large printing presses for Artwork and
Advertising Banners. My research indicates that ALC used 19" inch track presses to print the T206 cards. These same size presses were used to print the T205's, T213's,
T214's, t215's, etc. cards

OK, let's start with the structure of the T206 set. The very first press run comprises of 12 subjects (which includes the famous Wagner card). It's the group of T206's we
refer to as the 150-only Series.

150-only Series
....
l<.................................................. ...................... 19" inch wide sheet .................................................. .........................>l


Furthermore, there are 144 additional subjects that comprise the 150 Series. And, 144 is certainly a factor of 12.



A standard size sheet of cardboard in that era was 19" inch wide by 25" inches long. As many as 108 cards could be printed on this size sheet.

For example, shown here is my concept of a printed sheet of the Exclusive 12 cards in the 460-only Series. It's been proven that this group of 12 subjects in this series
of T206's was printed separately from the other subjects in the 460-only series.


.. v ............................................ 19" x 25" sheet .............................................v





Stay tuned for more specific info regarding how the "12 factor" figures into the printing of the various series in the T206 set. The Southern League series
and the 350 Series will follow in the next post.



TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 05-25-2018 at 01:42 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #387  
Old 05-25-2018, 07:55 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *






Southern Leaguer series

Originally, during the 150 series press runs, 34 - Southern Leaguers were printed. These 34 cards were issued with Brown HINDU backs. Then, ALC added 14 more
Southern Leaguers. All 48 of these cards were printed in a 12 across x 4 row format. These were issued 1st with OLD MILL backs, followed by PIEDMONT 350 backs.


350 Series

The 1910 COUPON set provides us an insight into the printing of T206's early in this series. Shown here is my simulated sheet of the 48 - Major Leaguers in the
1910 COUPON set. This sheet of 48 cards represents an early (circa Spring 1910) regular press run of T206 cards. ALC also used this T206 sheet to produce the
1910 COUPON cards.








Stay tuned regarding how the "12 factor" figures into the printing of the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (No Frame) series, and the 460-only series in the next post.


TED Z
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  #388  
Old 05-25-2018, 07:55 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame) series

"The AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame) subjects were printed on a 36-card sheet."

I posted this statement on Net54 quite a number of years ago. I was instantly questioned by another Net54 member who said there are 37 subjects in this series.
I replied....Very true. However, when ALC initially printed this series there were 36 guys, which included Simon Nicholls. Nicholls retired from BB on Apr 25, 1910.
Shortly afterwards, ALC replaced the Nicholls image on this 36-card sheet with Jake Stahl. My proof of this is by empirical means, and by Pop report data **

.



460-only series

This last series of T206's is comprised of 46 subjects. The Exclusive 12 guys and 34 other subjects. I contend that ALC printed these 34 subjects on a 36-card sheet.
They Double-Printed (D-P) two subjects to fill out the 36-card sheet. This is standard practice in the printing trade. Which two guys were D-P ? From my experience
putting together 5 - T206 sets, my best guess is Tinker was D-P. And, I tend to think Needham was also D-P. Perhaps, one of you will chime in here was some other
guesses as to which two subjects may have been D-P.



** Note
While I realize POP report data cannot be considered as absolute, I think it's fair to say that the POP data
is representative of the relative availability of certain cards with respect to other cards within that group.


TED Z
.
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  #389  
Old 05-26-2018, 05:06 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





Continuing the "12 factor" in the printing of T206 sheets. It appears that the PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 cards were printed on a sheet formatted 12 cards across by
6 rows of cards down. Listed here are the 72 confirmed PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 cards. It has been my experience (and several serious collectors of this particular
PIEDMONT back) that 72 cards complete this run.






PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 confirmed list......72 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Chase (Trophy)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)

Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Latham
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Marquard (follow thru)
Mathewson (dark cap)

McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Merkle (throwing)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)

Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)
CYoung (glove)


OK, there are more examples forthcoming which support the "12 factor". However, with the examples already presented here in these 4 posts, if you are not convinced
that ALC printed the T206 sheets with 12 cards horizontally on a given sheet, then feel free to post your counter to my premise of how these cards were printed.
The "12 factor" jives with the mathematical structure of the various T206 series.



TED Z
.
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  #390  
Old 05-28-2018, 08:31 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





Switching to tobacco sets other than the T206 for the moment. Here are examples of the "12 factor" as it applies to the T205 set and the 1910-1912 T215 set.

The printing of the T205 set is quite complex. But, one series of this set is very clear. This series of T205's were printed circa Fall/Winter 1911............

T205 Minor Leaguers (12 subjects)

.....

...

l<.................................................. ...................... 19" inch wide sheet .................................................. .......................>l




The 1910-1912 T215 RED CROSS set consists of 96 subjects. My guess is ALC printed the first run of these cards on a 48-card sheet in 1910.
Followed by a 2nd printing of 48 different cards (circa 1911-1912).




TED Z
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