NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-16-2018, 09:16 PM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
Howard Chasser
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 1,303
Default Input needed on a developing ebay buyer situation

So I sold a PSA graded card. The buyer received the card and is claiming the card I sent is other than the one I had listed in the auction. He sent me an image of the same card with the same grade (clearly no where near as nice as the one I sold him), claiming I sent him the wrong card and is demanding I send him the correct one or a refund. He has already sent 7 emails and requested a return through ebay.

I double checked the group of cards (not a large one) I have listed, just to make sure I am not missing something. I own no other cards that are the same card and grade. I plan to call PSA to further confirm some details (1 - I believe I had the card I sold graded myself and it has been in my possession since and 2 - to see what I can find out about the card he is claiming I sent (which I never owned). I just sent him an email trying to gently call foul and encouraging him to not take this further. The only thing that is giving me any pause is he is an ebay user since 2014 with 526 positive feedbacks.

Here is the original transaction:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/151874336412


Your experience and suggestion(s) are appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-16-2018, 09:34 PM
BLongley's Avatar
BLongley BLongley is offline
Brian
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: NJ
Posts: 327
Default

I assume the one he is showing you he received is a different cert#, etc? And its still a PSA 7? Perhaps try to look at the cert# on the one he is claiming you sent him to see if you can find it being sold either on eBay or through another venue through the PSA Auction Results?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:01 PM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
Howard Chasser
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 1,303
Default Great suggestions Brian

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLongley View Post
I assume the one he is showing you he received is a different cert#, etc? And its still a PSA 7? Perhaps try to look at the cert# on the one he is claiming you sent him to see if you can find it being sold either on eBay or through another venue through the PSA Auction Results?
I already searched PSA sales history - no record of the one he is showing an image of. Based on your suggestion just looked at ebay current and completed listings - nothing there. Anyone able to check VCP - the card in question is a PSA 7 1969 Roberto Clemente cert # 14491605

Here are the emails he has sent so far:

4:02PM
Good afternoon. Received a 1969 Clemente today. However, this is clearly not the well centered card described and shown, PSA #17980933. Needless to say this is very upsetting to me. I have no need or use for this particular card and would like it exchanged for the one listed. -Rich

5:10PM
Attached is a picture of the card you sent instead.... ( I have attached picture)

5:41PM
filed ebay return request

5:54PM
Hi again. So I'm looking at your listings for the card you sent me ( PSA #14491605) instead of the well centered card I was hoping to receive ( PSA #17980933) but turns out you don't have this card listed. I can't understand how this mix up could happen? It took me all of 15 seconds to see the mistake. I hope to hear from you soon.

6PM
This is your very detailed and informed description you gave and yet you send out this card instead and it wasn't noticeably different to you? An oversight on such a distinguished card? I expect that the card we agreed upon will eventually be on it's way after I send this one back to you....

this copy is clearly better centered than any copies I have seen on ebay in the recent past. The only thing I see that may have kept it from a 7.5-8.5 is a touch of softness on the bottom right corner. This card is likely one of the most stunning 7's you will ever see.

About 7Pm I sent him the following:
I will need to look further into this and get back with you by Thursday. What make say I do not have the listed card? (definitely should have proofed it)

7:04PM
The wrong card you sent me isn't listed. Meaning I not sure which card you got confused with since I don't see another. Point is you sent me a card totally diffetent than the one we agreed to. Now I should hold on to it until Thursday?

7:09PM
So as not to confuse anyone further. Basically all I want is to return this card you sent me and for you to send me the one in the picture of this listing. I need to wait until Thursday for this?

7:26
With all due respect I have to tell you that what's irking the most about this deal is that I passed up on a grade 7 similar to this one for less money because this one was more appealing due to the very things you described, CENTERING. I even went with the sales tax nonsense to get it and this is the result. Wait until Thursday. Smh


About 9 PM (after checking my "selling pile" and confirming for myself I had no other PSA 7 1969 Clemente's laying around)I sent:
Dear sir,

I am not a dealer. I am a collector. I collect Roberto Clemente cards. I owned 4 1969 O Pee Chee cards. A PSA 8, a BVG 8, a PSA 7 (the one I scanned and listed), and a PSA 5. I just went through my cards just in case I might have forgotten something. I still own all but the PSA 7. I have never owned the card you claim I sent. I will be reaching out to PSA tomorrow to further confirm some details before reaching out to ebay with the same information. I have been a seller on ebay since 1998. I also participate extensively on collectors bulletin boards where reputation is everything and I have a spotless one. We discuss extensively ebay users who scam and are "blackballed" by many ebay users accordingly. I encourage you to reconsider what you are trying to claim here before there is no turning back.

Howard

9:00
I am not a dealer either but do resent your allegations that I should reconsider my claim? I have no reason to lie about such a thing. I too have a spotless reputation and have no reason to lie about receiving the wrong card. You sent me this card and your remarks tell me plenty.

9:05
The card in the picture attached showing PSA #14491605 came from this envelope and this box from your location. ( He included a photo of the same card pictured on top of the box I sent him.)

9:13
How dare you say you never owned this card? This card came out of the envelope you sent. I've purchased many things on Ebay and sold many things as well and never a problem. Now you have the nerve to acuse me? Ok.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 69 Clemente scam.jpg (66.6 KB, 386 views)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:03 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 2,968
Default

Yeah, which cert number is he claiming you sent him? Seems to obvious for you to not have considered. I keep almost all cards I own on my inventory/set registry and then only release them once I've sold the card. That way I can track if other people try to add a card I still own and report them to PSA.
__________________
--
Current Want to Buy/Trade for List:
1930s Phoebe Phelps Caramel Pennant of Georgia Tech
1910 Painted handkerchief of GA Tech pennant girl by F. Earl Christy sold by Atlanta Toy Museum on eBay circa 2000.
COMC store: https://www.comc.com/Users/mjohnatgt,sh,i100
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:21 PM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
Howard Chasser
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 1,303
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Yeah, which cert number is he claiming you sent him? Seems to obvious for you to not have considered. I keep almost all cards I own on my inventory/set registry and then only release them once I've sold the card. That way I can track if other people try to add a card I still own and report them to PSA.
He is claiming I sent him cert# 14491605 (according to PSA - no information available). I sent him cert# 17980933 (currently listed in my PSA inventory).
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:28 PM
pokerplyr80's Avatar
pokerplyr80 pokerplyr80 is offline
je.sse @rnot
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: California
Posts: 2,861
Default

I would contact Ebay and plead your case, let them know you are being scammed. I've never dealt with this situation personally on either end, but have a feeling they may side with the buyer. But presenting your side before he files a claim may help.
__________________
Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others.

http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/pokerplyr80
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:40 PM
tribefan's Avatar
tribefan tribefan is offline
m!ke kn@z@v!c
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 158
Default

What is the eBay id, and his name? He may be a known scammer. Is there anything in his feedback that appears to be a false positive?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:40 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 2,968
Default

I'm trying to figure out how this makes sense from the buyer's perspective. It's not like a different PSA 7 could have been swapped out in the mail.
Option 1: If the buyer had Cert #144... beforehand and he wanted to "trade" it for your card, he'd be asking for a refund, not for you to send the card you actually were selling. Maybe this is a mid-game gambit that he'll negotiate back to you to return his #144 for a full refund.
Option 2: You made the mistake and accidentally sent him the wrong card. You have a collection of this specific card and you own multiples of them. Maybe you just forgot this one, and you mailed it accidentally. However, if this was the case, #179 is still in your possession somewhere.

Option 2 makes the most sense to me, just based on game theory and intuition.
__________________
--
Current Want to Buy/Trade for List:
1930s Phoebe Phelps Caramel Pennant of Georgia Tech
1910 Painted handkerchief of GA Tech pennant girl by F. Earl Christy sold by Atlanta Toy Museum on eBay circa 2000.
COMC store: https://www.comc.com/Users/mjohnatgt,sh,i100

Last edited by swarmee; 10-16-2018 at 10:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:48 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcv123 View Post
He is claiming I sent him cert# 14491605 (according to PSA - no information available). I sent him cert# 17980933 (currently listed in my PSA inventory).
This card was sold on ebay on 4/9/2010 and it looks like you purchased
it Howard.

Clemente.jpg

img734.jpg

Last edited by Pat R; 10-16-2018 at 10:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:23 PM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
Howard Chasser
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 1,303
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
This card was sold on ebay on 4/9/2010 and it looks like you purchased
it Howard.

Attachment 331619

Attachment 331620
Whoa! Super confused now. Looks like might have been my mistake. Is that from VCP?
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Input on date of tintype needed bbpostcards Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 9 09-10-2015 11:34 AM
Another SGC holder concern with input/opinions needed Gobucsmagic74 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 6 01-23-2015 03:59 PM
Much needed help for a tragic situation with one of our members CMIZ5290 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 3 04-21-2011 08:19 PM
T206 HOF Calendar - Input Needed Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 15 01-04-2008 07:09 PM
Vintage input desperately needed Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 10 11-22-2002 07:28 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:19 PM.


ebay GSB