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  #151  
Old 03-17-2017, 05:49 PM
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Fred Fred is offline
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Originally Posted by packs View Post
I find the victim blaming hard to understand. If your child died because their driver was drunk I don't know how many people would say their child deserved it.
Hey Packs - if you're dumb enough to let your child go off with a drunk then I guess that's what happens.

You can call those grown men victims, they were, but victims at their own choice and circumstance. Oh please, let's not twist this and say my post indicates that they wanted to die... sheesh...
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  #152  
Old 03-17-2017, 05:54 PM
packs packs is offline
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What do you mean let, though? These men were adults, they were also someone's children. I think you're putting a lot of distance between what happened and what it means to a family. In my opinion a drunk driver is the only person responsible for the deaths of anyone in an accident. Passengers are victims, both inside of the vehicle and outside.

Last edited by packs; 03-17-2017 at 08:10 PM.
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  #153  
Old 03-17-2017, 10:43 PM
Shoeless Moe Shoeless Moe is offline
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Put yourself in how Jose's mom feels, his fiance's view, but also put yourself in the position of the mother of one of his friends who died, and their fiance. It all depends on who's position your in, the view will be different.

You can say he was an idiot, or you can say he was a just a young guy given millions at a age where we all did things we wouldn't do now. Or to a lot lesser degree.

Everyone will have a different view on this, no one is right no one is wrong, it is what is, and the Marlins are paying the price as is my fantasy team....c'mon lighten up!
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  #154  
Old 03-17-2017, 11:39 PM
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Gobucsmagic74 Gobucsmagic74 is offline
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There's no definitive right or wrong answer here. If anything, I hope at the very least there's a lesson to be learned, to be passed down from one generation to the next, which simply put is that life is precious and that nothing (not one damn thing) is everlasting or guaranteed. My son just turned five and is very athletic and competitive and he's just recently started climbing on shit, and by shit I mean everything. I don't want to be this hovering parent (I'm recently divorced, so when he's with me he's mine) but when he gets up on the tabletop all I see is disaster. I mean literally all that would have to happen is loss of balance and a backward fall on tile and everything could change in an instant. I feel for everyone in this particular situation, it's unfathomable to me but maybe in the wider scope there's a lesson to be learned. I honestly just can't imagine, and the thought of putting myself in any of these parent's shoes is beyond heart wrenching, regardless of who's to blame

Last edited by Gobucsmagic74; 03-17-2017 at 11:51 PM.
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  #155  
Old 03-18-2017, 08:25 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe View Post
Put yourself in how Jose's mom feels, his fiance's view, but also put yourself in the position of the mother of one of his friends who died, and their fiance. It all depends on who's position your in, the view will be different.

You can say he was an idiot, or you can say he was a just a young guy given millions at a age where we all did things we wouldn't do now. Or to a lot lesser degree.

Everyone will have a different view on this, no one is right no one is wrong, it is what is, and the Marlins are paying the price as is my fantasy team....c'mon lighten up!
There is a right and wrong in what you can recover under the law though. People also vote to change what the law is so the opinions when translated to votes do matter. Thus, there has to be a policy on this and people cant just 'agree to disagree' The driver should be responsible and we need to stop victim shaming. If we prevent people from driving vehicles under the influence this all stops.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-cut-half.html

Is this girl to blame for being a passenger in a car where the driver had a .10 but said he had 'two beers' and is a police officer. She was 21, how is she supposed to know that he was drunk.

Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 03-18-2017 at 10:17 PM.
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  #156  
Old 03-18-2017, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred View Post
Hey Packs - if you're dumb enough to let your child go off with a drunk then I guess that's what happens.

You can call those grown men victims, they were, but victims at their own choice and circumstance. Oh please, let's not twist this and say my post indicates that they wanted to die... sheesh...
I took this horrible event as an opportunity to teach my three young sons. Yes, they were grown men, but they were also probably star-struck young men who felt privileged to be in the presence of a superstar. They probably felt that they would look "uncool" if they didn't go along with Jose's crazy request to go out on the boat at night or if they told him to slow down. I made much dumber decisions in my early 20's than I ever did as a child. Let's all take the time to sit our children down and remind them to have a mind of their own, be leaders, rather than followers, and to take a stance even when it is not popular or cool. I can't imagine how I would feel if I lost a son due to the stupidity and irresponsibility of another. That has to be exacerbated when that same irresponsible person is getting streets named after him and all of the pity and national attention. Just a horrible thing that happened. All we can do is teach our kids, so hopefully they don't make the same type of mistake.

Last edited by orly57; 03-18-2017 at 11:16 AM.
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  #157  
Old 03-18-2017, 12:40 PM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector View Post
There is a right and wrong in what you can recover under the law though. People also vote to change what the law is so the opinions when translated to votes do matter. Thus, there has to be a policy on this and people cant just 'agree to disagree' The driver should be responsible and we need to stop victim shaming. If we prevent people from driving vehicles under the influence this all stops.
Good luck! I pray for that level of possibility. One basic tenet of human nature is self sabotage - it is THE lifetime battle of human being - the only thing that varies is method and extent of the sabotage. HUGE battle from teen age to 30 (and beyond).

Driver responsibility - YES! Passenger responsibility (excepting force or lack of knowledge of the drivers state) - YES!
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  #158  
Old 03-18-2017, 04:00 PM
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Fred Fred is offline
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Orlando, that's it! You get it! Teach your kids the right thing and to make the best decisions.
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  #159  
Old 03-18-2017, 05:57 PM
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Snapolit1 Snapolit1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orly57 View Post
I took this horrible event as an opportunity to teach my three young sons. Yes, they were grown men, but they were also probably star-struck young men who felt privileged to be in the presence of a superstar. They probably felt that they would look "uncool" if they didn't go along with Jose's crazy request to go out on the boat at night or if they told him to slow down. I made much dumber decisions in my early 20's than I ever did as a child. Let's all take the time to sit our children down and remind them to have a mind of their own, be leaders, rather than followers, and to take a stance even when it is not popular or cool. I can't imagine how I would feel if I lost a son due to the stupidity and irresponsibility of another. That has to be exacerbated when that same irresponsible person is getting streets named after him and all of the pity and national attention. Just a horrible thing that happened. All we can do is teach our kids, so hopefully they don't make the same type of mistake.
Probably the most important lesson my father taught me was to walk away from situations that made me uncomfortable for any reason, not giving a crap who maligned me or called me names. Think for yourself and don't go along for anything you don't want to do. Speak up and walk away. Be your own man as you say. I've more than a few times refused to get into a car of someone wasted. Tried to take their keys away and if they were insistent just tell them I wanted no part of it.

Last edited by Snapolit1; 03-18-2017 at 05:57 PM.
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  #160  
Old 03-18-2017, 06:10 PM
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clydepepper clydepepper is offline
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Need the following 1953 Topps #'s in EX/MT
72,81,88,95,242,243,245,248,251,252, 255,257,258,259,260,266,276,277,278, & 280

Last edited by clydepepper; 03-18-2017 at 11:19 PM.
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