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  #11  
Old 08-09-2012, 02:02 PM
drc drc is offline
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If the PSA LOA (some might call it 'provenance') is just the one LOA from the first sale (and that was reused for the second sale), it would appear PSA did nothing errant. All the restoration and resale would have happened after the fact. And there's no evidence PSA issued a second LOA. In fact, my guess is they didn't.

Last edited by drc; 08-09-2012 at 02:32 PM.
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  #12  
Old 08-09-2012, 02:43 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
Christopher Williams
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Originally Posted by thecatspajamas View Post

Besides, you didn't use the term "sacred cow" once in your post, so how do we know it's really you posting this? Now THERE'S a conspiracy theory I'd like to explore
Lance, that was funny.
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  #13  
Old 08-09-2012, 04:32 PM
TyrusRCobb TyrusRCobb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drc View Post
If the PSA LOA (some might call it 'provenance') is just the one LOA from the first sale (and that was reused for the second sale), it would appear PSA did nothing errant. All the restoration and resale would have happened after the fact. And there's no evidence PSA issued a second LOA. In fact, my guess is they didn't.
Again, excuse my ignorance which apparently runs very deep in regards to collecting, are there issues with PSA/DNA as well as JSA authentications?
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  #14  
Old 08-09-2012, 05:11 PM
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David Atkatz David Atkatz is offline
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Originally Posted by TyrusRCobb View Post
Again, excuse my ignorance which apparently runs very deep in regards to collecting, are there issues with PSA/DNA as well as JSA authentications?
In a word, yes!
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  #15  
Old 08-09-2012, 05:12 PM
Big Dave Big Dave is offline
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....are there issues with PSA/DNA as well as JSA authentications?

Quite a few, and new ones come to light every week. Do a search on here in regard to PSA/DNA and JSA and your eyes will be opened.
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  #16  
Old 08-09-2012, 05:57 PM
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toybulldog toybulldog is offline
Mark O.
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Again, excuse my ignorance which apparently runs very deep in regards to collecting, are there issues with PSA/DNA as well as JSA authentications?
I'd say. Here's a pair of multiple signed gloves in which both are allegedly signed by Rocky Marciano. I just got done going through 350 Marciano exemplars and can not come up with one that comes close to resembling these. Slow and child-like writing, atypical letter formations, the way the "ky" in "Rocky" changes direction and goes upward in both examples. My opinion and other boxing collectors opinions I've talked to have come to an easy and definitive "no" yet it is signed-off on by PSA/DNA, and in particular someone named Joe Orlando who is listed as "President" on their web site.




As an insulted collector of vintage boxing autographs I'd like to invite Joe Orlando to come on here and show us the supporting evidence/exemplars for these two Rocky Marciano autographs. If he has no supporting evidence/exemplars for these two Marciano autographs what are we to assume? Does this company add false value to non-authentic items? At $1,700 with plenty of time remaining!

Mark Ogren
Schenectady, NY
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  #17  
Old 08-09-2012, 06:03 PM
travrosty travrosty is offline
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Mark makes a salient point. I can't find any Marciano's that match that either, and I have studied boxing autographs for over 20 years, like he has.

it looks childish, with no control to the autograph that would put it close to what marciano has been known to sign. We see other gloves signed by Marciano and his glove signature matches very close to his paper signature. But here we have a crazy signature by Marciano.

I don't think they have a problem using the weighscale method of authenticating. which in my view means 51 probability versus 49 percent not, means it get approved. I have to have 100 percent or it would be at least a no opinion, because you have to back that signature up using exemplars and knowledge gained over the years, and they see a Marciano sig on a glove and figure it must be good, but show me another one like that.

but if its signed by joe orlando, he must be the boxing guy there, so his opinion has a lot of weight among the long time boxing collectors with 20, 30, 40 years experience. NOT! Among the old time collectors and dealers, these certs by psa and jsa are considered a joke, they really are. They don't know firpo. they don't know Sullivan, they dont know liston, they dont know Ali, they don't know Dempsey.

Last edited by travrosty; 08-09-2012 at 06:05 PM.
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  #18  
Old 08-09-2012, 06:19 PM
travrosty travrosty is offline
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Originally Posted by jgmp123 View Post
I just had a great conversation with Larry Rosenbaum at EAC Gallery and here is what he said...
Anytime they list an item that has been professionally restored, they mention that in the listing....He said that he is not sure why this particular listing omitted that and that the buyer was contacted and a credit/refund was issued because obviously it wouldn't have sold for that amount if it had stated "restored".

He also stated that there specialty is historic documents, not sports and that they bring in an authenticator like PSA or JSA to tell handle the authenticity of the item....

As far as the "provenance" or previous LOA for the item, he did not have any info on that as, he stated, it happened almost 7 years ago.



there is no such thing as a restored autograph. because it happened 7 years ago is no excuse not to figure out what happened with the provenance.

if restored autographs in sports is acceptable, then there is a lot of "restored" autograph for sale all over the place, it's called no good.

a big question is how it was restored, does eac know how because it is scary to think how many more autographs out there are "restored" like that?

how can it be listed as the finest truman signed ball extant, if it isn't trumans signature, but "restored"

I am not buying that restored excuse. there is no such thing as a restored autograph. no fault of yours james, thanks for getting the explanation.

If eac knew it was "restored" they should have rejected the signed ball at the least and contacting authorities wouldn't have been out of the question. to say that they specialize in historical items is a cop out. Reznikoff knows darn well that "restored" sports autographs is something that doesn't exist. This stinks.

Last edited by travrosty; 08-09-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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  #19  
Old 08-09-2012, 06:28 PM
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David Atkatz David Atkatz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travrosty View Post
there is no such thing as a restored autograph.
Absolutely true.
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  #20  
Old 08-09-2012, 06:54 PM
travrosty travrosty is offline
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yep, when regular people try to restore an autograph by tracing over the very faint remnants, its called a trace over job, makes the auto totally worthless. when other people do it, it's now called "restored"?
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