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Go Back Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

View Poll Results: Do Roger Maris or Albert Belle belong in the HOF?
Maris only 82 28.47%
Belle only 44 15.28%
Both 33 11.46%
Neither 129 44.79%
Voters: 288. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-08-2019, 09:23 AM
Jim65's Avatar
Jim65 Jim65 is offline Braci.liano
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 962

I voted neither because neither deserves to be in. Maris had 3 good years which makes him a no. Belle was the far superior hitter but his rep and short career keep him out.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:24 AM
TUM301 TUM301 is offline
H Murphy
Join Date: May 2009
Location: western Mass
Posts: 740

My 2 cents, Maris`s argument reminds me somewhat of the Joe Namath one. Both players had some great years but overall, their career numbers didn`t make them automatic. However, both players had single historical moments that transcended their respective sports. Maris for historical "61" season and of course Joe and his Jets forever changing the NFL/AFL landscape defeating the Colts in the Super Bowl. For me, they are both Hall Of Fame Locks !
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:24 AM
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darwinbulldog darwinbulldog is offline
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,829

Originally Posted by rats60 View Post

Maybe in the New York area. The 1961 season was 58 years ago. Unless someone is ~65 they weren't old enough to remember to chase. Most people in the West, South or Midwest have no idea who he is.
I daresay most people in New York don't know who he is. Clearly most people everywhere do not. The median age is like 27, and even in the U.S., which apart from Canada, is probably about the only country where more than 1% of people would know the name, < 20% of the people are old enough to remember the '61 season.

I have a feeling that most people know who Sam Harris is, given how frequently he's mentioned within my social group, but I also know that feeling is stupid and comes from a false consensus bias and that in reality there's no way even 10% of people know who he is. Baseball fans will feel the same about Roger Maris, Hank Greenberg, et al., but again, no way even 10% of people know who these guys are. In fact, no way even 10% of people know who Walter Johnson was, and he was the greatest pitcher in MLB history.

There are several times as many people who don't know who Donald Trump is (and he's likely the most famous person in the world at the moment) as who do know who Roger Maris was.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:30 AM
Baseball Bob Baseball Bob is offline
Eric S.
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Houston Swamp
Posts: 73

My recollection of Albert belle was that he was a foul-tempered, cantankerous and lazy baseball player who wasted a lot of his talent. The HOF does not usually take in characters like that.....
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:40 AM
packs packs is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,212

Why do people keep bringing up 1961 as a baseline for knowing who Maris is? Did everyone forget McGwire and Sosa's chase? Who were they chasing? How about Bonds' pursuit in 2001? That was only 18 years ago.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:45 AM
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h2oya311 h2oya311 is offline
Derek Granger
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,557

When I think of Albert Belle, I think of this play:

By the way, I voted "no" for both, although some of the arguments for inclusion of Maris are warranted. Interestingly, just because someone doesn't make the HOF doesn't mean that they aren't a major part of the HOF (Cooperstown). There's all sorts of equipment and other references to non-HOFers at Cooperstown, like Maris and Rose. I don't recall seeing any Joey Belle "stuff" there at Cooperstown. Feared, yes (see video). HOF, not so much. I'd stick Dale Murphy in the Hall well before Joey "Albert" Belle.

HOF "Earliest" Collection (Ideal - Indiv): 195/325 (60.0%)
1911 T332 Helmar Stamps.................: 178/180 (98.9%)
1914 T330-2 Piedmont Art Stamps......: 109/119 (91.6%)
1923 V100 Willard's Chocolate............: 113/180 (62.8%)

Last edited by h2oya311; 03-08-2019 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:46 AM
Jason19th Jason19th is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 368

Neither are even close. Maris is not a hall of famer in any regard. He was a quiet decent and hardworking man who was elevated to something he was not because of two good seasons. Look at his numbers, he hit 260 with 1325 hits. He did not have a career where he was somehow blocked by circumstances. He was a regular when he was 22 and he retired at 33 after hitting around 250 with less then 13 homer per year for his last 4 years. If you look at his similarity scores per age he was Reggie Jackson for three years, but in his other years he was Larry Hisle, Pete incavigila, Jessie Barfield and Coby Rasmus.

There are a ton a guys who had two great years- Rubin Sierra, Jose Cansevo, George foster, dale murphy, Mickey Vernon, al Rosen, Denny McClain, etc who have career numbers as good as or better then Maris who are not even talked about for the hall

He should be applauded for 61 but not be elevated to the hall
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:07 AM
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MooseDog MooseDog is offline
J Stone
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 830

Originally Posted by steve B View Post
I suppose it depends on whether it's a hall of fame, or a hall of stats. Both often go together, but sometimes they diverge.
This ^^^^^^^^

Seems we're moving more towards a Hall of (Advanced) Stats.
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:10 AM
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jchcollins jchcollins is online now
J0hn Collin$
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NC
Posts: 1,040

Belle to me is borderline with a short career. Maris is such a pull either way - clearly (along with Gil Hodges) one of the single most popular players who has not been enshrined yet. He did win 2 MVP's, but the arguments for the short peak are valid. I do buy into some of the "did a lot for baseball" arguments. Yes, the vote is as a player, but what are some of those long-forgotten execs enshrined for if not for "what they did for the game"? As a kid even in the 1980's when I first started collecting cards, Maris was extremely well known - way before the summer of '98 drama. Yes, it's for one event - but that one event was the single most cherished record in the entire history of the game. One that has since been tarnished I might add by all the things that have since come out about McGwire and Bonds. I think there are exceptions, and really it would not bother me if Roger gets elected one day.
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:20 AM
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clydepepper clydepepper is offline
Raymond 'Robbie' Culpepper
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Originally Posted by Jim65 View Post
I voted neither because neither deserves to be in. Maris had 3 good years which makes him a no. Belle was the far superior hitter but his rep and short career keep him out.
+1 - exactly as I see it.
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