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  #51  
Old 02-14-2019, 09:56 PM
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It's not even signed!
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  #52  
Old 02-14-2019, 10:04 PM
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I'm willing to bet that the $3.50 bidder has a snipe placed.
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  #53  
Old 02-15-2019, 12:32 AM
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Every time something goes for huge money that isn't a prewar card there always a few around here that seem bitter, and there are comments criticizing someone for how he spends his money. Stuff like this is good for the hobby, even if it's not what you collect.

I did a quick Google search and found this article. It's from 2012, but will give a little background on why this set became so popular

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...us-metal-gems/
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  #54  
Old 02-15-2019, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagewhitesox View Post
Is it any different than a tobacco card with a different back?

as the other poster said, there are some really tough 90s insert cards out there, very scare that are not widely known.
Cool card, hope the seller got his money.

Plus, anything Jordan is red hot.
That’s actually a damn good point. I can envision a group of kids showing off their T206’s back in 1911 or so. One kid shows off a red Piedmont Cobb and says, “I’ll sell this one for a nickel.” A deal goes down and the card changes owners. Another youngster whips out his red Cobb, only this one has “Ty Cobb” on the back rather than Piedmont. “I’ll let this baby go for a quarter.” The other boys laugh and call him crazy. “But it’s rare,” explains the proud Cobb/Cobb owner. “It’s not rare, idiot. Looks just like mine just with a different back.” No deal goes down, so the kid tucks it away somewhere, forgets about it, then finds it 80 years later... and becomes a VERY rich old man.

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  #55  
Old 02-15-2019, 09:14 AM
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"Despite the PSA Auth assessment this example is easily among the finest PMG Green MJ's in the world "

Do the writers ever read their own stuff and wonder what the ___ they were thinking? They should.
This to me is just illustrative of how contradictory and nuts dealers can be with how they try to put spins on grading. For most, it's "we're not professional graders, so we stand behind the opinion of a trusted 3rd party authenticator like PSA..." But for this one it's more like "Who are you going to trust PSA? Listen to us. This is one of the finest cards you will ever see despite the fact that it is AA."

What. Ever.
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  #56  
Old 02-15-2019, 09:17 AM
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I haven't read every post so I may have missed something, but why did it get the Altered? Is it recolored somewhere?
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  #57  
Old 02-15-2019, 09:30 AM
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Sounds like PSA suspects it's trimmed on the right edge. Of course everyone is saying Authentic doesn't matter. If that was true why trim it?
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  #58  
Old 02-15-2019, 09:47 AM
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My guess is that someone did this long ago. These cards were very susceptible to chipping and the person who originally had it probably did that to clean it up for sale - back when it was much less and grading wasn’t as important. Fast forward several years and it is now “authentic”. However if the card has strong eye appeal and is rare enough it really doesn’t matter. Kind of like the Gretzky Honus. It may be trimmed but it’s still the best one out there and it will keep selling for more every time it comes up. Occasionally you will see trimmed Jeter rookies where someone tried to clean up a chipped edge.

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Sounds like PSA suspects it's trimmed on the right edge. Of course everyone is saying Authentic doesn't matter. If that was true why trim it?
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  #59  
Old 02-15-2019, 11:48 AM
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hey guys..it's all cardboard
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  #60  
Old 02-15-2019, 01:09 PM
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Vintage only collectors wear blinders
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  #61  
Old 02-15-2019, 01:14 PM
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Vintage only collectors wear blinders
Modern only collectors have not had their bubble pop yet to realize that they are in a super bubble of cosmic porpotions.
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  #62  
Old 02-15-2019, 01:41 PM
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I find it humorous how bunches of modern collectors are coming here on a strictly vintage site trying to tell us what we should think. Kind of like how people go on missionary trip to the Middle East trying to sell Christianity it usually does not end well For them!
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  #63  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:20 PM
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I find it humorous how bunches of modern collectors are coming here on a strictly vintage site trying to tell us what we should think. Kind of like how people go on missionary trip to the Middle East trying to sell Christianity it usually does not end well For them!
Most of these modern collectors (with whom I happen to agree) have been on this vintage site for years. Which begs the question....why do so many modern collectors have a healthy respect for vintage while many vintage collectors can't return the favor?
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  #64  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MichelaiTorres83 View Post
Modern only collectors have not had their bubble pop yet to realize that they are in a super bubble of cosmic porpotions.
I grew up collecting both modern and vintage. The "bubble pop" myth has been bandied about since the mid-80s.
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  #65  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Orioles1954 View Post
Most of these modern collectors (with whom I happen to agree) have been on this vintage site for years. Which begs the question....why do so many modern collectors have a healthy respect for vintage while many vintage collectors can't return the favor?
Exactly

I collect both
Just recently jumped into the modern market - which is bigger than most realize

but here is a nice card I own

1921 Exhibits Ruth.jpg



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  #66  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:25 PM
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I would rather have the PSA 10 Diana Taurasi rookie than this card. I think the price is beyond crazy. Hold the card for ten years and you will probably lose 95+% of your investment.
The modern hobby absolutely dwarfs the vintage/pre-war segment. This particular subset has throngs of national/international bidders. Think anyone anyone in Taiwan cares about Ty Cobb or Cap Anson?
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  #67  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:25 PM
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Vintage only collectors wear blinders
Acuna!!!!
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  #68  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:27 PM
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Acuna!!!!
You know it baby!!

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  #69  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:28 PM
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Acuna!!!!
Yessir!

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  #70  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:31 PM
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I can’t speak for everyone only myself I mainly collect vintage...some cards from the 50s 60s 70s but not much modern stuff...That is my preference and that is why I frequent this vintage board. If I wanted to have modern shiny stuff presented to me I would frequent such a board
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  #71  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orioles1954 View Post
I grew up collecting both modern and vintage. The "bubble pop" myth has been bandied about since the mid-80s.
+1 I laughed when I read that comment. I also collect both modern
and vintage. Got Ruth, Cochrane, Simmons, etc. Modern have Griffey, Trout, Acuna etc......

I always wonder if the reason some vintage collectors say modern is a bubble or
junk is because they worry as years go by less and less collectors want some
of the stuff in their arsenal. It happened with stamps.

did someone say Acuna!



Edited: Not to upset too many on a pre-war board but here is a Cobb I picked up recently. Was broken up from an REA lot.

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  #72  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:39 PM
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My newest card is the unsigned one.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg harper.jpg (74.0 KB, 295 views)
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  #73  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:41 PM
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That is a tough card Peter - better not get stuck with it when the bubble pops!
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  #74  
Old 02-15-2019, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
More so than with the Jordans, unless unbeknownst to me few Drums were produced for the express purpose of creating a collectible in short supply. To me, limited production modern insert cards are all artificially scarce.
This is where I have been for all my adult years of collecting. I prefer something that is rare because it's evolved that way over time, and we really don't know how many there are. Bottom line for me is I cannot go into the local 7-11 and hope to find anything I'd enjoy.
Production limits to create scarcity don't do anything for me. Bradford Exchange plates come to mind from back when I got back into collecting. It didn't make sense to me then, and it still doesn't today.

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Originally Posted by Neal View Post
Exactly
I collect both
Just recently jumped into the modern market - which is bigger than most realize
I have to buy into this. While there are not a lot of card shows around here, whenever I go to one I am always amazed at how much “shiny stuff” there is, and how little vintage there is. And it’s not just kids buying the shiny stuff. I really don’t even look at those tables, but those guys must be moving product because they are always back.
As my wife says to me when we disagree on something we might discuss, “It’s not right or wrong, it’s just different.”

Quote:
Originally Posted by aconte View Post
did someone say Acuna!
Here’s another reason I’m not much into modern stuff. You cannot read their signatures. I’ve posted about this pet peeve many of mine times in the Autograph section of this forum.
Again, it’s not right or wrong, it’s just different.

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Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
I find it humorous how bunches of modern collectors are coming here on a strictly vintage site trying to tell us what we should think. Kind of like how people go on missionary trip to the Middle East trying to sell Christianity it usually does not end well For them!
I had to add this. It just made me laugh!!! Well done Pete.
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  #75  
Old 02-15-2019, 03:01 PM
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Enough whining from modern collectors. Put the hanky down and stop crying. I'll put the violin away.

Collect what you like. And don't give a sh*t what others think. Collect humels with little girls twirling umbrellas if that's your thing.

Problem with modern cards is old farts like me can name 250 players since 1970 that "smart guys" were hoarding and eventually their wives had to beg someone to come to the house to throw them away. You know which players I'm talking about. Yeah, virtually every can't miss guy in the modern era. Can you catch lightning in a bottle? Sure, there are a few Trout cards worth big bucks. Usually because they are some color variation or something else. But many many many people have spent big bucks hoarding modern cards that proved worthless. Hell, some of them have even written books about them.

Saying modern cards are a sound investment is like saying penny stocks are a good investment. Sure 1 our of every 10,000 turn into a great investment. And the guy who cleans up will make a big stink about it forever. I'll stick with Babe Ruth. You can have Acuna.

Last edited by Snapolit1; 02-15-2019 at 03:05 PM.
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  #76  
Old 02-15-2019, 03:05 PM
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Bob,

I agree on the signatures being ineligible today. I bought this card more
for the image but I guess that could be considered dumb when I could have
just found one of a thousand others at a fraction of the price.

Most of my vintage autos are from players of the 1950s that I got at shows
or through the mail. Their sigs are so much better!
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  #77  
Old 02-15-2019, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
Enough whining from modern collectors. Put the hanky down and stop crying. I'll put the violin away.

Collect what you like. And don't give a sh*t what others think. Collect humels with little girls twirling umbrellas if that's your thing.

Problem with modern cards is old farts like me can name 250 players since 1970 that "smart guys" were hoarding and eventually their wives had to beg someone to come to the house to throw them away. You know which players I'm talking about. Yeah, virtually every can't miss guy in the modern era. Can you catch lightning in a bottle? Sure, there are a few Trout cards worth big bucks. Usually because they are some color variation or something else. But many many many people have spent big bucks hoarding modern cards that proved worthless. Hell, some of them have even written books about them.
If your point is that utility / enjoyment from sports cards comes only from them eventually panning out as investments, then it would seem valid. Certainly for someone spending well into the six-figure range for a card produced in the 1990's, that would seem to be a concern. But I would argue (not that I do much of this myself..) that some collectors can get the same enjoyement out of their worthless junk-era cards as I do my vintage material - if they have a connection to the player or some type of nostalgia related to the cards comes into play. If it's something besides the cold hard cash aspect of cards as a potential - indeed as evidenced by the types of discussion that goes on in these forums - it's that the cards themselves are intrensically enjoyable and worth collecting. I mean besides that what is the value of a cool card that you want to show off besides the fact that it provides a dopamine hit?

We all have different or at least varied if similar reasons for why we collect. I think things can be discussed and perceived as outlandish without getting down to a fight about respect between types of collectors and who collects what. Personally I could care less about 99% of cards that are made today, but I don't disparage those who do.
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  #78  
Old 02-15-2019, 03:54 PM
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Acuna!!!!

Moncada
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  #79  
Old 02-15-2019, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
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That is a tough card Peter - better not get stuck with it when the bubble pops!
If he starts hitting again like he is capable of, I'll be just fine.
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Old 02-15-2019, 06:53 PM
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The problem I see with the modern stuff, especially the manufactured rarity of some cards, is that the people collecting it today and spending big bucks on it probably weren't around and collecting in the early 1990's. Buying shiny stuff back then (while looking for chase and insert cards) was an obsession with some people and the big companies took advantage of it and overproduces the product. When the air went out of the bubble MANY people were left holding either worthless cards or cards that were valued WAAAAY less than what people had paid for them. This upset a LOT of people and those people left the hobby because of it. Also, some of the big companies went out of business.

Meanwhile, the older cards may have hit some bumps along the way but they continued to hold their value pretty well and the people collecting them didn't get burned and lose interest in collecting them.

It seems the new shiny stuff hasn't had it's bubble burst yet and the people collecting it hasn't felt the sting of holding cards with vanishing profits.....

David
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:23 PM
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The problem I see with the modern stuff, especially the manufactured rarity of some cards, is that the people collecting it today and spending big bucks on it probably weren't around and collecting in the early 1990's. Buying shiny stuff back then (while looking for chase and insert cards) was an obsession with some people and the big companies took advantage of it and overproduces the product. When the air went out of the bubble MANY people were left holding either worthless cards or cards that were valued WAAAAY less than what people had paid for them. This upset a LOT of people and those people left the hobby because of it. Also, some of the big companies went out of business.

Meanwhile, the older cards may have hit some bumps along the way but they continued to hold their value pretty well and the people collecting them didn't get burned and lose interest in collecting them.

It seems the new shiny stuff hasn't had it's bubble burst yet and the people collecting it hasn't felt the sting of holding cards with vanishing profits.....

David
Different type of hobby. Most modern collectors are into short-term flipping rather than long-term collecting.
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  #82  
Old 02-15-2019, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Orioles1954 View Post
Different type of hobby. Most modern collectors are into short-term flipping rather than long-term collecting.
That can't be good for long term valuations?

It's like noone wants to get stuck with the hot potato?
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  #83  
Old 02-15-2019, 07:34 PM
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That can't be good for long term valuations?

It's like noone wants to get stuck with the hot potato?
HFT, man.
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  #84  
Old 02-15-2019, 07:42 PM
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That can't be good for long term valuations?

It's like noone wants to get stuck with the hot potato?
This is exactly what it is and has been for at least 20 years for the section of collectors known as prospectors.

I really like reading posts over on BO from new to the hobby collectors that don't get the hot potato game. They actually are buying those crazily overpriced cards thinking they are a long term investment.

Even though they are fun to laugh at it also sucks because after they lose a bunch of cash they leave the hobby.

I don't collect the new new stuff but I get the biggest smile on my face from looking through junk era cards.
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  #85  
Old 02-15-2019, 07:57 PM
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This is exactly what it is and has been for at least 20 years for the section of collectors known as prospectors.

I really like reading posts over on BO from new to the hobby collectors that don't get the hot potato game. They actually are buying those crazily overpriced cards thinking they are a long term investment.

Even though they are fun to laugh at it also sucks because after they lose a bunch of cash they leave the hobby.

I don't collect the new new stuff but I get the biggest smile on my face from looking through junk era cards.
Thanks for the comments Ben...makes sense...but that doesn't sound good for the hobby over the long haul...time will tell!

Now my reality is flipping through pages of raw cards from the 40's-present...not many last 20 years...and handling stacks of slabs of the graded stuff.

I almost like looking at the scans more than the actual cards! Maybe more a product of my vision!

Occasionally I'll find some stacks of vintage...50's-70's...I enjoy searching these unknown stacks the most!!!!
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  #86  
Old 02-15-2019, 08:23 PM
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Thanks for the comments Ben...makes sense...but that doesn't sound good for the hobby over the long haul...time will tell!

Now my reality is flipping through pages of raw cards from the 40's-present...not many last 20 years...and handling stacks of slabs of the graded stuff.

I almost like looking at the scans more than the actual cards! Maybe more a product of my vision!

Occasionally I'll find some stacks of vintage...50's-70's...I enjoy searching these unknown stacks the most!!!!
Hopefully a lot of those that get burned come back to the hobby later in life. Just like a lot of us that bought those Mark Lewis rookies back in the day.
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:30 PM
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+1 I laughed when I read that comment. I also collect both modern

and vintage. Got Ruth, Cochrane, Simmons, etc. Modern have Griffey, Trout, Acuna etc......



I always wonder if the reason some vintage collectors say modern is a bubble or

junk is because they worry as years go by less and less collectors want some

of the stuff in their arsenal. It happened with stamps.



did someone say Acuna!







Edited: Not to upset too many on a pre-war board but here is a Cobb I picked up recently. Was broken up from an REA lot.



Omg Ty Cob!!!! Never knew of that card. Amazing.

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Old 02-15-2019, 08:51 PM
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The impact of young players in mlb has led to a big resurgence in new cards especially rookie autograph cards. Guys like Trout, Kershaw, Judge, Harper, Ohtani, Arenado, Bryant, Betts, Soto, Acuna and prospects like Vlad Jr, Tatis Jr are giving collectors something to chase. There is big money to be made and lost. It’s a gamble. You could have bought $1000 worth of Judge cards a couple years ago and cashed in for 50-100k or more. You could have bought $1000 worth of Greg Bird cards and have not much to show for it. And then you have basketball and football with guys like Mohames, Saquon, Curry, Lebron etc and overall it makes the new card hobby potentially very lucrative. But there is a lot of risk. Trout could get hurt tomorrow or stop hitting and you lose. He could go on to win 6 more mvps and a couple World Series and his stuff could go way higher than it is now. There isn’t much of a risk or reward in buying a Brooks Robinson Card. It will probably be worth as much in 5 years that it is today. Some people are investors - and they invest in cards. Personally, it is good to see people interested in current cards.
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Orioles1954 View Post
Different type of hobby. Most modern collectors are into short-term flipping rather than long-term collecting.
Not really. The buyer of this card is most likely a Jordan collector who will hold this card long term. Most modern collectors are no different from vintage, prewar or post war collectors, they just like to collect different players. Many are outside of the United States and are drawn to basketball cards and players such as Michael Jordan and LeBron James instead of Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle.

The people who you are thinking of are not collectors, they are called prospectors. They buy rookie cards of minor league players hoping to flip them when they reach the majors or get hot for profit. It is not like they don't exist in vintage circles, just in another form. Many big REA or Heritage Auctions you see cards sell that are soon relisted on EBay or with PWCC in hopes of flipping for a profit.
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MichelaiTorres83 View Post
Modern only collectors have not had their bubble pop yet to realize that they are in a super bubble of cosmic porpotions.
It is an insanely rare Jordan card. Those aren't bubble material, IMO.
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post

Problem with modern cards is old farts like me can name 250 players since 1970 that "smart guys" were hoarding and eventually their wives had to beg someone to come to the house to throw them away. You know which players I'm talking about. Yeah, virtually every can't miss guy in the modern era. Can you catch lightning in a bottle? Sure, there are a few Trout cards worth big bucks. Usually because they are some color variation or something else. But many many many people have spent big bucks hoarding modern cards that proved worthless. Hell, some of them have even written books about them.

Saying modern cards are a sound investment is like saying penny stocks are a good investment. Sure 1 our of every 10,000 turn into a great investment. And the guy who cleans up will make a big stink about it forever. I'll stick with Babe Ruth. You can have Acuna.
While I agree with your assessment of throwing a dart and trying to hit a bullseye with some rookie phenom, that's not at all the case with the card referenced throughout most of this thread. Jordan's legacy is right there with Ruth and Cobb.
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:36 PM
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I look at it this way; if I had an extra 500K to 750K just sitting around and looking to spend on something, if I had the choice, then instead of buying this Michael Jordan card, I would buy a nice condo on a beach in or near a smaller city in Florida.

Now, if we were talking about some pre-war cards then that would be different......

David
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Old 02-16-2019, 08:46 AM
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I knew I remembered seeing one of these a handful of years back and it going for close to 90k.


https://www.cardboardconnection.com/...michael-jordan


I checked the certs and the number on the back it is a different one and it too has the authentic grade.

I think the comments about modern prospecting are fair but this card doesn't fall into that category. For whatever reason it has been deemed to be the holy grail of Jordan inserts and for that reason it will always carry huge value. Michael Jordan has some fanatical collectors and for good reason.

This comes down to bragging rights as like most high priced cards do.

The initial bidding had tons of false bids being placed so the 500k to 700k price seems unrealistic to me but I wouldn't be surprised to see this move up some from here. Either way the current bid is higher than the sale from 2015 so if one wants to view this as a bubble, more hot air has come into the balloon.
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Old 02-16-2019, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ctownboy View Post
I look at it this way; if I had an extra 500K to 750K just sitting around and looking to spend on something, if I had the choice, then instead of buying this Michael Jordan card, I would buy a nice condo on a beach in or near a smaller city in Florida.



Now, if we were talking about some pre-war cards then that would be different......



David
Take it a step further....theres rookies out there like Fernando Tatis Jr fetching a thousand dollars. If I was dropping a $1000 I'd get me a decent early MANTLE.

Even Derek Jeter, and I do love Jeter----auto balls are $500? I can get a Mantle or Joe D for less.

Mantle=VALUE LOL!!!

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Old 02-16-2019, 09:14 AM
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Hold on im running to the bank
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:45 AM
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Some people here seem to forget that Michael Jordan is not an unproven baseball prospect.

There also seems to be some conflating of “prospecting,” which is one endeavor, and simply collecting modern players you like.

There is also such a thing as collecting with no enjoyment hinging on future monetary values. It’s wrong to assume every public purchase is a mercenary investment to be judged on ROI, as opposed to simple collecting. Who’s to say what someone’s reasons are for a purchase, or what their bank acct looks like?

There are lots of different ways to play in the card hobby, and to each his own.

There are things like prospecting or busting expensive boxes (vintage or modern) that some guys love; not my cup of tea, but it doesn’t feel right to slight it or look down on it.
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctownboy View Post
I look at it this way; if I had an extra 500K to 750K just sitting around and looking to spend on something, if I had the choice, then instead of buying this Michael Jordan card, I would buy a nice condo on a beach in or near a smaller city in Florida.David
Maintenance costs and annual taxes will be less on the Jordan.
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MattyC View Post
Some people here seem to forget that Michael Jordan is not an unproven baseball prospect.

There also seems to be some conflating of “prospecting,” which is one endeavor, and simply collecting modern players you like.

There is also such a thing as collecting with no enjoyment hinging on future monetary values. It’s wrong to assume every public purchase is a mercenary investment to be judged on ROI, as opposed to simple collecting. Who’s to say what someone’s reasons are for a purchase, or what their bank acct looks like?

There are lots of different ways to play in the card hobby, and to each his own.

There are things like prospecting or busting expensive boxes (vintage or modern) that some guys love; not my cup of tea, but it doesn’t feel right to slight it or look down on it.
As DPeck mentioned, ego probably has as much to do with a lot of purchases as investment, if not more.
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
While I agree with your assessment of throwing a dart and trying to hit a bullseye with some rookie phenom, that's not at all the case with the card referenced throughout most of this thread. Jordan's legacy is right there with Ruth and Cobb.
I agree with you, but there are 110 year old Cobb cards that are even more rare than this Jordan, and they don’t go for nearly this much. It’s a weird phenomenon. If the guy has the money, and wants to spend it on this, then God bless him. But there is no rhyme or reason to the value of cards. Supply and DEMAND is the easy answer.

The card pictured on my avatar (which I no longer own) is a 1908 Cobb with a known population of 2! It predates all of his popular cards and is an image that is unique to this card. I paid $17,000 for it at auction. So we have a combination of:
1. Legendary player
2. Extreme rarity
3. Early and unique image

And yet it sells for a small fraction of what this modern Jordan sells for. Again, I’m not going to say that one is better than the other, but in my estimation, DEMAND is the only explanation. Why there wouldn’t be more demand for aCobb like this is insane to me, and a subject for another thread. To each their own.

Last edited by orly57; 02-16-2019 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:33 AM
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Yes Michael Jordan is in the pantheon. I would never question the staying power of his card or his career. What I would question is anyone hoarding Jacob DeGrom or Aaron Judge cards. Too many. Too many variations. Too much hoarding. Old cards like old comic books are a valuable thing because few people ever considered to save them, much less preserve them in excellent condition. Most modern cards are valuable because of a gimmick. I bought a Topps David Wright farewell auto card for like $199. It was a nice card. There were versions that were much more because they were blue or red or purple or some other color. People paying real money to get a different color in the background. Whatever floats your boat. Seems a little silly to me. Is one color worth more than others? Lol.
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