NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used > Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-05-2013, 02:42 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,628
Default A Real Shocker

Sorry, but I had to

Autographs 101 - 'Signing Your Name'

Bottom is a 1923 Urban Shocker signature.
Top is a 1927.

Imagine, if you can, what it would feel like to write the 'b' on the bottom ball. Then imagine the same for the top ball.

Someone had a brain fart.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+

Last edited by Runscott; 11-30-2014 at 12:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-05-2013, 02:55 PM
GrayGhost's Avatar
GrayGhost GrayGhost is offline
Scott
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Connecticut.
Posts: 7,626
Default

I don't get it.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-05-2013, 03:30 PM
isaac2004 isaac2004 is offline
Is@ac Le.vin
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 536
Default

I think he is pointing out ow awful the b is on the top signature.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-05-2013, 04:02 PM
cubsfan-budman cubsfan-budman is offline
Chris.tian Aug.ustus
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 512
Default

I think the top "B" just looks really difficult to write. Unnatural.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-05-2013, 04:58 PM
David Atkatz's Avatar
David Atkatz David Atkatz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,817
Default

You're turning into a one-trick pony, Scott.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-05-2013, 05:02 PM
Michael B Michael B is offline
Mh wߥ
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,142
Default

Notice how the upstroke on the 'b' is straight, while the downstroke is bowed backwards. The upstroke and the back of the bowl of the 'b' look like one line when in true cursive the upstroke would be bowed forward and the downstroke would be a straight line down to the bottom of the bowl and crossing the upstroke. Appears that they got confused and did not know how to do a cursive b.

Last edited by Michael B; 03-05-2013 at 05:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-05-2013, 05:51 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,628
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Atkatz View Post
You're turning into a one-trick pony, Scott.
If that were true, I guess your predictable rebuttals would make you my faithful sidekick.

Instead of taking little nips at my posts, why don't you say something of substance? Explain how the same person could have written both of the 'b's shown above.

And "it looks real to me" isn't useful. All decent forgeries look real.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-05-2013, 05:51 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,628
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael B View Post
Notice how the upstroke on the 'b' is straight, while the downstroke is bowed backwards. The upstroke and the back of the bowl of the 'b' look like one line when in true cursive the upstroke would be bowed forward and the downstroke would be a straight line down to the bottom of the bowl and crossing the upstroke. Appears that they got confused and did not know how to do a cursive b.
See above, David.

(Thanks Michael)
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:06 PM
David Atkatz's Avatar
David Atkatz David Atkatz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,817
Default

How could these signatures possibly be by the same person?




Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:26 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,628
Default

Explain the 'b' in 'Urban', David

When you are done with that, go back and check the two Lazzeri signatures I posted in Chris' thread.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:28 PM
David Atkatz's Avatar
David Atkatz David Atkatz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,817
Default

When you explain the above. Letter-by-letter, like Michael did.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:33 PM
David Atkatz's Avatar
David Atkatz David Atkatz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,817
Default

I gave my opinion on that ball, Scott, and I stick by it.
IMHO--and those of many experienced with autographs--one who claims an autograph is no good because this or that particular letter is "wrong," doesn't know much about autographs.

Every letter in that first Gehrig is "wrong." (And so are the letter connections.) But it's good.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:39 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,628
Default

Are you implying that one of the Shocker signatures was written in a hurry, but the other was carefully penned?

It really looks more like the someone tried to carefully forge the 1927 signature, but got confused when they got to the 'b'.

The Gehrig signatures don't exhibit those qualities at all, so I really don't get your point, other than you were trying to come up with something to deflect the question.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:41 PM
David Atkatz's Avatar
David Atkatz David Atkatz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,817
Default

Snarky comment removed.

Last edited by David Atkatz; 03-05-2013 at 07:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:41 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,628
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Atkatz View Post
IMHO--and those of many experienced with autographs--one who claims an autograph is no good because this or that particular letter is "wrong," doesn't know much about autographs.
David, you really don't want to go there.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:44 PM
David Atkatz's Avatar
David Atkatz David Atkatz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,817
Default

Never mind.

Last edited by David Atkatz; 03-05-2013 at 07:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:51 PM
mighty bombjack mighty bombjack is offline
Wayne Walker
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 949
Default

Interesting. What's the provenance of the second auto?
__________________
My Hall of Fame autograph collection

http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/f...NFT/?start=all
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:55 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,628
Default

I deleted the content of this post, but to make it useful, as opposed to just wasting empty space.....

The two Gehrigs are completely different forms of his signature - not two signatures that look basically alike other than one horrible letter.

I don't know enough about Gehrig signatures to state that the 'quickly written' one is good, but I'm sure it is, since you say it is, and because it makes total sense that when someone writes quickly, their handwriting will look different.

In the case of the Shockers, I DO know which one is the fake. And it's not just 'single letter analysis'. You've seen my posts about autographs, and you know that isn't the way I think - my first post regarding the 'green' ball listed several characteristics that had nothing to do with single letters. In the 'Shocker' example, I chose the 'b' to illustrate a point about the way people write, and about the way they do not write.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+

Last edited by Runscott; 03-05-2013 at 07:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-05-2013, 07:03 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,628
Default

Okay...David.

Thanks for the note - I see what's happening, and my apologies. My posting the Lazzeri and Shocker signatures was NOT a shot at you. I can see how you would react the way you have, thinking I'm attacking you.

My problem is not with you, Chris, or anyone else who thinks this ball is good. It's not your jobs to authenticate the ball, or once authenticated, to sell it. My beef is with those people who are making money off of fellow-hobbyists, any way they can. It's sick.

We have a 'good' bad example in front of us, and yes, I'm going to beat it to death, one bite at a time. 'Gehrig' was the first bite, 'Lazzeri' was another, and 'Shocker' is the third. The ball itself was actually the first, but there are too many people who just look at it and think it looks good, despite the obvious problems. So yeah, I picked a few autographs that could easily be ripped to pieces based on really bad letters.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-05-2013, 07:14 PM
RichardSimon's Avatar
RichardSimon RichardSimon is offline
Richard Simon
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New York City
Posts: 5,425
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runscott View Post
My beef is with those people who are making money off of fellow-hobbyists, any way they can.
+1
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history.
-
Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first.
www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports
--
"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-05-2013, 07:32 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,628
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty bombjack View Post
Interesting. What's the provenance of the second auto?
I picked the second one solely because it came from a ball that was sold in the same auction as the green ball. Whether it's also a fake or not, it at least illustrates how a normal human being (and Urban Shocker) writes a 'b'. If you need another for comparison, here's the one from David's ball - same normal 'b'.

But as David points out, analyzing each letter isn't the way to do this. We've already talked about the problems with the ball as a whole, so rather than beat a dead horse, I'm now simply beating at it's individual parts.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+

Last edited by Runscott; 11-30-2014 at 12:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Urban Shocker question Shoeless Moe Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 10 03-26-2011 10:48 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:38 PM.


ebay GSB